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Re: Concorde cockpit redesign

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Re: Concorde cockpit redesign

Postby V12 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:08 pm

Split off from the topic Concorde cockpit redesign.


I performed test flight from SVMI to LFPG (https://skyvector.com/?ll=33.2993132405 ... LOG%20LFPG). It was almost 4200 nm, I landed on fuel vapour, in main tanks was 2 tons of fuel. Here are collected data :

Image

Cruise climb worked absolutly perfect, Max Climb is not 100%, but still good. Engines have too much kN at FL500 @ M2, aircraft reached FL600 too early, fuel consumption was lower, than in reality. In this version pilot can't change pax and loadout, I took off with MTOW. In this circumstances Concorde should not reach LFPG on route via ADLOG fix. Only with 60 pax and without cargo. I must change some things to push realism to next level.

Weather discontinuities are clearly visible. In this case, George was able to handle all steep changes in baro pressure and wind changes without dissconnection. Really someone should rework interpolation routines after active METAR station change, or develop real wind aloft download utility like FSXWX.

Image

Image
Last edited by Johan G on Wed May 22, 2019 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Split off from the topic "Concorde cockpit redesign"
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Advanced Weather debugging in the Concorde

Postby legoboyvdlp » Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:47 pm

V12 wrote in Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:08 pm:Weather discontinuities are clearly visible. In this case, George was able to handle all steep changes in baro pressure and wind changes without dissconnection. Really someone should rework interpolation routines after active METAR station change, or develop real wind aloft download utility like FSXWX.


That's honestly strange -
Code: Select all
interpolation_loop
is meant to do that: but it's not working for you and it's broken for Richard as well, apparently.

How about this - on line 424 of local_weather.nas change
Code: Select all
if (local_weather_running_flag == 0) {return;}


to
Code: Select all
if (local_weather_running_flag == 0) {
print("Warning - advanced weather disabled!");
return;
}


Maybe on your next flight, you could check to see if you ever get that warning? I would expect not - if you do, something is badly amiss with your FlightGear or local weather :?:


Another change to try: set local-weather/config/debug-output-flag to TRUE in the property browser; do you ever get this message:

Code: Select all
Distance to weather station SOMETHING m, unloading ...
?
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Re: Concorde cockpit redesign

Postby V12 » Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:18 pm

legoboyvdlp wrote in Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:47 pm:...something is badly amiss with your FlightGear

On 3 my machines ? Almost zero probability, IMHO.

EDIT :
After modification of the file local_weather.nas warning about disabled AW was not displayed...
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Re: Concorde cockpit redesign

Postby legoboyvdlp » Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:32 pm

Sorry - what I mean is:
when you see a jump do you see that message?

And if you enable local-weather/config/debug-output-flag
do you see that warning when you get a jump in weather?
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Re: Concorde cockpit redesign

Postby V12 » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:34 pm

Will check later evening.
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Re: Concorde cockpit redesign

Postby V12 » Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:18 pm

legoboyvdlp wrote in Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:47 pm:Maybe on your next flight, you could check to see if you ever get that warning?

My today's test flight from KJFK to EGLL was without any errors in the Nasal console or warnings about disabled AW after METAR station change. But logged data shows discontinuities in all values (KIAS, BaroAlt, Wind dir, Wind Speed) after all changes. Interpolation of the wind direction and speed sometimes works - check nice long smooth wind direction change from second 7700th to 9600th . Wind speed was interpolated too in that time interval. Maximum wind direction change is 70 degs in one second at 11308th second. But wind speed is OK. Ground speed 180 meters per second (355 kts) is not very large, I can't imaginate how can wind change direction on 180 meters trajectory from 91 deg to 20 deg at FL200 over absolutly flat land.

Image

Back to Concorde redesign - again, cruise climb worked perfectly, but today bit slow. I again changed vertical speed for this AP mode from 50 to 60 fpm, with reduced engine thrust it should be OK. Take off from Grantley Adams at Barbados with MTOW and fly to EGLL should be now impossible, for this flight You will need reduce payload. In other case aircraft will climb too long and burn too much fuel. Git updated.
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Re: Concorde cockpit redesign

Postby wkitty42 » Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:28 pm

V12 wrote in Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:18 pm:I can't imaginate how can wind change direction on 180 meters trajectory from 91 deg to 20 deg at FL200 over absolutly flat land.

you can't? our midwest is pretty flat and they get a lot of tornadoes out there... that's wind flipping a 180 really fast... why? mainly because we have the cold air from the north flowing down into the midwest states and meeting up with warm moist air blowing up from the gulf of mexico and other places in the south...

basically my point is that while the land does have some effect on the winds, the atmosphere does its own thing between its high and low pressure areas... even standing out here in my yard, we get wind/breeze from one point and then it'll reverse and be blowing the other way or even +/- 90 degrees... it is natural...

EDIT: FWIW: i've looked at your chart again and while i do see the yellow line for wind direction, there's nothing in the numbers that tells which direction...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: Concorde cockpit redesign

Postby V12 » Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:05 pm

wkitty42 :
Tornado, hmmm, OK, You are right. I did not think about tornado.
Left y-axis is for wind dir, wind speed and KIAS, right y-axis for altitude.
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Re: Concorde cockpit redesign

Postby legoboyvdlp » Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:32 pm

I doubt a tornado is implemented in Flight test, but indeed wind directions change pretty fast as you pass high or low pressure points. Wind direction goes one way in a circle around lows and the opposite way around highs - can't remember the exact directions.


I don't honestly know if Advanced Weather has proper pressure things with highs and lows between stations. I know it does with non-METAR mode, it simulates highs and lows. At least, I think it does. But I don't think it does that with METAR mode - it's meant to change pressure smoothly to the reported pressure (which doesn't work on your system and Richard's for some reason?)


V12, for your next flight could you log the static and pitot pressure? I want to see how they change and how this is related to the jumps in pressure etc.

/systems/static[0]/pressure-inhg

and

/systems/pitot[0]/measured-total-pressure-inhg


Btw your airspeed indicator must use that second property -- otherwise you get wierd things as you go over Mach 1. All supersonic aircraft must use /systems/pitot[n]/measured-total-pressure-inhg and it is recommended for all aircraft to use it. See README.airspeed-indicator under /Docs/.
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Re: Concorde cockpit redesign

Postby V12 » Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:34 pm

Thanx for advice, I will try record that params.

EDIT :
Setup for airspeed indicator :

Code: Select all
 <airspeed-indicator>                                                       <!-- ADC 1 sensor -->
    <name>airspeed-adc</name>
    <number>0</number>
    <total-pressure>/systems/pitot[2]/measured-total-pressure-inhg</total-pressure>
    <static-pressure>/systems/static[2]/pressure-inhg</static-pressure>
  </airspeed-indicator>

  <airspeed-indicator>                                                       <!-- ADC 2 sensor -->
    <name>airspeed-adc</name>
    <number>1</number>
    <total-pressure>/systems/pitot[1]/measured-total-pressure-inhg</total-pressure>
    <static-pressure>/systems/static[1]/pressure-inhg</static-pressure>
  </airspeed-indicator>

  <airspeed-indicator>
    <name>airspeed-sensor</name>
    <number>0</number>
    <total-pressure>/systems/pitot[0]/measured-total-pressure-inhg</total-pressure>
    <static-pressure>/systems/static[0]/pressure-inhg</static-pressure>
  </airspeed-indicator>

  <airspeed-indicator>
    <name>airspeed-sensor</name>
    <number>1</number>
    <total-pressure>/systems/pitot[0]/measured-total-pressure-inhg</total-pressure>
    <static-pressure>/systems/static[0]/pressure-inhg</static-pressure>
  </airspeed-indicator>

  <airspeed-indicator>
    <name>airspeed-standby</name>
    <number>0</number>
    <total-pressure>/systems/pitot[0]/measured-total-pressure-inhg</total-pressure>
    <static-pressure>/systems/static[0]/pressure-inhg</static-pressure>
  </airspeed-indicator>

It is default fgaddons version solution, I did not changed it.
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Re: Concorde cockpit redesign

Postby V12 » Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:04 pm

lego :
I recorded very ineteresting data from my test flight from SVMI to SEQU. Check https://ulozto.net/!i7P1Xoz4HnNW/svmi-sequ-ods
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Re: Concorde cockpit redesign

Postby legoboyvdlp » Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:20 pm

Looks fine to me - no massive jumps. Change in pressure corresponds to altitude / speed change.

Are you sure it did not get fixed along with the other bugs you had?
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Re: Concorde cockpit redesign

Postby V12 » Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:33 pm

I did not changed anything after KJFK-EGLL flight. I don't understand, in this last flight is all OK. But there is one annomaly - many METAR stations has same wind direction and speed. I'm using aloft waypoint wind model with live METAR, this is very strange. All flight was over land with possible wind ineraction with terrain. I will try similar flight over Europe from LZIB to EGLL.
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Re: Concorde cockpit redesign

Postby legoboyvdlp » Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:47 pm

I think it is better to test over long water flights - hasn't it usually occured when METARS are very far away from eachother, such as over Atlantic?

Wind does seem to be presently calm / same direction.

Image

but I have seen aloft interpolated show the same wind for a long time before...
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Re: Concorde cockpit redesign

Postby V12 » Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:00 pm

Another flight, its part was over Adriatic Sea - from Samedan to Dubrovnik. Again very interesant dataset - https://ulozto.net/!AFi3IeEW9sSG/lszs-lddu-ods there are spikes with additional strange effects - sea level pressure is without changes, but static and total pressures shows steep changes. I don't understand this effect.
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