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Autopush: Automated pushback

Modeling aircraft systems, like electrical stuff, hydraulics, pneumatics? Feel free to ask support.

Would you like Autopush to be a shared module instead of per-aircraft thing?

1) User: leave as it is. No additional actions for user when installing. Have to wait for aircraft author to update Autopush. Number of Autopush of the disk equals the number of aircraft with it installed.
1
6%
2) User: put it in Aircraft/Autopush. Have to download/install/update separately. Latest bugfixes available immediately. All installed aircraft use the same copy of Autopush.
0
No votes
3) User: make it an addon. Same as 2), but also have to put --addon argument in the launcher/command line. On the other hand it does not clutter up the Aircraft folder.
2
12%
4) Developer: leave it as it is. Have to check upstream Autopush for updates.
2
12%
5) Developer: put it in Aircraft/Autopush. Only have to touch Autopush-related code when its interface changes.
1
6%
6) Developer: make it an addon. Same as 5), but more organised, and when it (hopefully) gets in FGDATA the transitioning from addon will be easier.
11
65%
 
Total votes : 17

Re: Autopush: Automated pushback

Postby merspieler » Fri Nov 23, 2018 12:26 am

Internal we had a discussion, if it makes sense, to make autopush an addon.

Since we weren't sure what you think about it, we've created a poll.

To put it simple, there are 3 options.
- Keep it as it is right now
- Make a pseudo aircraft that has to be installed additionally (can only be done if the fgaddon gatekeeper allow us to do so... feedback is welcome)
- Make it an addon which has to be installed.

To differentiate between the opinion of the users and delevopers we've setup all 3 options for each of the groups.
PLEASE ONLY VOTE IN THE GROUP YOU BELONG TO.
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Re: Autopush: Automated pushback

Postby Isaak » Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:16 am

I find it quite hard to choose. I think making an addon from it will definitely make it easier to implement it on more aircraft, but I 'm not sure if it will work as easy as I imagine it can be, because I had to tweak with quite a lot of parameters to make it work with the 777 and it wouldn't be very user-friendly if every user would have to modify these parameters themselves. Or am I missing something here? (Note: I didn't have time yet to update the 777's autopush to v1.0, so maybe a lot of the stuff I tweaked isn't necessary anymore. I 'm planning to do some updates on December the 2nd.)

An other counter-argument I see is that this will require users to install some extra software, which might result in users complaining that the function didn't come standard with the aircraft. It will also require developers to maintain the standard pushback as a backup. I do prefer autopush over the native pushback, even if you don't use the pushback route feature, the pushback is much more reliable than the standard pushback, but maybe that's not how the majority looks at it?

Another thought: isn't it possible to make autopush the native pushback of FlightGear and let it replace the standard pushback in fgdata? It could come with the standard functionality when the aircraft developer didn't specify the required parameters to make the pushback route work, so that we don't break the current aircraft. But when you replace the pushback documentation with the autopush documentation, it would mean that every developer finds the way to autopush and we provide a much better simulation by default. This will have some consequences for you, but will improve FlightGear as a project the most in my opinion.

Thanks for asking our opinion, I hope I 've added some good points :)
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Re: Autopush: Automated pushback

Postby Octal450 » Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:32 am

Hi friends:
I worked with mimino today to fix bugs in the pushback control loop and an update control gains. So far we tested the A32X, A33X, MD-11X, and TU144. The scaling seems to be fixed, and it seems to no longer overshoot the final waypoint and not stop.

Developers, if you want to try it: https://gitlab.com/mdanil/flightgear-autopush/

Kind Regards,
Josh
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Re: Autopush: Automated pushback

Postby Isaak » Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:28 pm

The 777 has been updated with your fixes. I never experienced overshooting before (maybe because I already tweaked a lot with the parameters when implementing it first time), but I 've updated with your values to be sure.

Also the dialog has improved a lot now :)

Thanks a lot!
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Re: Autopush: Automated pushback

Postby tdammers » Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:24 am

wkitty42 wrote in Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:12 pm:interesting... i assume they push back to a safe position before starting up... alright... cool... it just seemed strange... keep up the good work ;)


Fuel is insanely expensive, so airlines do everything they can to avoid unnecessary engine time, and delaying the engine startup as much as possible is an easy win. This isn't always possible though: if you depend on stationary ground equipment to start up (e.g. external power), then obviously you need to start at least the APU before pushing back; it's also possible that ATC wants you to start up early so that you won't block the taxiway longer than absolutely necessary.
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Re: Autopush: Automated pushback

Postby Hooray » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:56 am

honestly, I only makes sense to create a shared module - and probably even an add-on, for the sake of the module, and for your own sanity.

Just look at similar add-ons like ThomasS "ground services" add-on (wiki).
Please don't send support requests by PM, instead post your questions on the forum so that all users can contribute and benefit
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Re: Autopush: Automated pushback

Postby merspieler » Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:58 pm

For all developers... we've released the release canidate for version 2.0
The major breaking changes are:
* Moving the property tree paths for auto push to /sim/model/autopush to avoid confusion with the old pushback.
* Moving the config in own fiile (ofc it's up to the a/c author to integrate it in their own files) to avoid major version bumps on modification of it.

Due to the nature of these changes make sure, you review the entire readme and to update the property path every where you've used it.

For all changes please see the milestone on gitlab
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Attempting an osm2city worldbuild... Testers needed!
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Re: Autopush: Automated pushback

Postby Isaak » Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:47 pm

Thanks a lot! The changelog looks promising, can't wait to see the wing tip lines and try a push-pull procedure! I 'm probably not able to update the 777 before the end of March, due to real life commitments, but I 'll post in the 777 thread once it's done.
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Re: Autopush: Automated pushback

Postby Octal450 » Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:53 pm

Please try to fix the current version before adding too many features.... The more features added, the buggier autopush gets, hence why I haven't updated my planes...

Kind Regards,
Josh
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Re: Autopush: Automated pushback

Postby merspieler » Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:30 pm

@it0uchpods: If you've got any bugs, please open them here. So far, we are not aware of any pending bugs.
Love at first flight A<380
Checkout Autopush. An improvment to the pushback to make your life easier.
Attempting an osm2city worldbuild... Testers needed!
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Re: Autopush: Automated pushback

Postby Octal450 » Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:58 pm

I spoke with mimino earlier, but none of these bugs are new -- overrunning waypoints, half the time it won't even reliably follow the line, etc...

The problem is -- reproducing it is hard. Every time it fails on me it is a different way.

Kind Regards,
Josh
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Re: Autopush: Automated pushback

Postby merspieler » Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:36 am

then let me use your words... "If you can reproduce it, come back"

The rc containes fixes to the problem that it won't stop in the correct spot.
In my experiense, when it doesn't follow the route, it's too tight... we've added a check for that in the rc.
Love at first flight A<380
Checkout Autopush. An improvment to the pushback to make your life easier.
Attempting an osm2city worldbuild... Testers needed!
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Re: Autopush: Automated pushback

Postby Isaak » Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:17 pm

Hi merspieler,

I'm updating the autopush on the 777, but I 'm stumbling over some questions:
- When pushing/pulling a second time within the same session, the autopush stops at the first small waypoint and prints that the push/pull has been completed
- Is there a place where I can modify the wingtip width? I can't seem to find which property drives it.
- I 'll have a little bit more to do, because the turn radius of the 772 (and derivatives) is smaller than the turn radius of the 773 and 77W. I don't find the possibility currently to make the radius aircraft dependent, so I 'll add the config file to the various SET files anyway.

The first results look good though!
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Re: Autopush: Automated pushback

Postby merspieler » Sat Mar 09, 2019 2:17 am

Thanks for the feedback...
About the first problem... idk... i'll open an issue
Wingtip width is taken from the fdm... if the fdm has an inaccurate width, then the points will be wrong as well
Love at first flight A<380
Checkout Autopush. An improvment to the pushback to make your life easier.
Attempting an osm2city worldbuild... Testers needed!
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Re: Autopush: Automated pushback

Postby Isaak » Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:39 am

Ok, thanks!
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