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Google Earth Scenary for FlightGear?

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Re: Google Earth Scenary for FlightGear?

Postby statto » Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:54 pm

Jester wrote:Pigeon has already connected FG to Google Earth about 4 years ago.

Image


That's awesome. Did he release any information on how to do this?
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Re: Google Earth Scenary for FlightGear?

Postby Gijs » Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:24 pm

Jester wrote:Pigeon has already connected FG to Google Earth about 4 years ago.

Well, this is "slightly" different, as Pigeon made Google Earth show a 3D model, at the location (with the orientation) that was retrieved from the MPServer.
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Re: Google Earth Scenary for FlightGear?

Postby planetacancun » Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:49 pm

Gijs wrote:
Jester wrote:Pigeon has already connected FG to Google Earth about 4 years ago.

Well, this is "slightly" different, as Pigeon made Google Earth show a 3D model, at the location (with the orientation) that was retrieved from the MPServer.


I remember reading it then, I didn't see the full potential with multiplayer and all included. You guys got to think on a way to mix the actual scenery environment (and make it better) and use the GE photo images to enable a plugin for interfacing. Like a middle ground for those who want to enable it and can use it. If this MPServer communication is a way to "overlap" both environments, then just small adjustments to the position of all assets on the scenery must be done to create the effect of being in a same place. Maybe then the MPServer code must work for the "plugin" like it did with this, like a localhost MPServer serving me GE images? I don't know.
Maybe it doesn't need to be all that bad, I mean, I use propietary nvidia drivers for my card on my Ubuntu Linux. It's just an option for the user to enable it or not.

Just a quick maybe dumb question, but still I have the doubt.

Can the actual scenery be mixed with the Google Earth imaging if a plugin for interfacing with it was created? And I'm not saying the scenery from GE, I'm saying the images. On top of those images could it be build the FG scenery, as a reference?

Wouldn't be easier for scenery devs to build on top of the photos? like copying the roof tops? Then it could be just a matter of enable/disable GE plugin maybe for performance issues for old video cards, or for just testing the airplane and with the need for more frames per second.
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Re: Google Earth Scenary for FlightGear?

Postby f-ojac » Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:57 pm

Some people are already working on Overlays for FG (see http://blaniel.free.fr/pub/flightgear/b ... est2-1.png http://blaniel.free.fr/pub/flightgear/b ... est2-2.png) and what has already been done for Brest.

However, I do agree with Martin on the fact that we have to rely on protocols and data sources we can have confidence with, just in case, for instance, x or y shuts down his servers one day or another or make its services $$$$, then we have to make sure FG community is not that much impacted.
And I also agree with Martin, Statto and Liam on the fact that we have to keep the underneath layers unimpacted. That is elevation, Corine/Landcover use + scenery objects, airports and so on.

How do you manage AIs ? Lighting of objects ? Weather conditions, clouds, seasons... ? Not very much fun to have to different windows open for that. I guess it is quite a cost for the graphic card either. So it is eye candy, indeed.
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Re: Google Earth Scenary for FlightGear?

Postby statto » Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:03 pm

planetacancun wrote:Wouldn't be easier for scenery devs to build on top of the photos? like copying the roof tops? Then it could be just a matter of enable/disable GE plugin maybe for performance issues for old video cards, or for just testing the airplane and with the need for more frames per second.


No, this is impossible for FlightGear not because it's impossible but because Google Earth has a very restrictive license on the redistribution of their imagery,

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Re: Google Earth Scenary for FlightGear?

Postby Prince Dark » Fri Dec 31, 2010 4:54 pm

Well you might be aware that the base FlightGear only comes with an isolated area around San Francisco, and then the rest is water. Besides, I've used Google Earth, and the scenery I've seen on my base FlightGear looks very similar to the satellite scenery on Google Earth. What I'm trying to say is Google Earth should be used to replace the scenery missing from the base FlightGear. MS FSX is allowed to do it. Why should an even better sim not?
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Re: Google Earth Scenary for FlightGear?

Postby skyop » Sat Jan 01, 2011 3:57 am

King of Aviators wrote:Well you might be aware that the base FlightGear only comes with an isolated area around San Francisco, and then the rest is water.


Yes, but users can always download new tiles or use Terrasync.

King of Aviators wrote:What I'm trying to say is Google Earth should be used to replace the scenery missing from the base FlightGear. MS FSX is allowed to do it. Why should an even better sim not?


Because of licensing issues. Google does not allow redistribution of its imagery or any derivative works. MSFS cannot do this either as a matter of fact, they buy imagery from a third party supplier.
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Re: Google Earth Scenary for FlightGear?

Postby Johan G » Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:05 am

King Of Aviators wrote:Well you might be aware that the base FlightGear only comes with an isolated area around San Francisco, and then the rest is water.

Well that's the base FlightGear. More terrain can be downloaded either through Terrasync or through downloading appropriate tiles from the World scenery, though I admit that doing either isn't all that easy the first times.

King Of Aviators wrote:Besides, I've used Google Earth, and the scenery I've seen on my base FlightGear looks very similar to the satellite scenery on Google Earth.

As FlightGear uses textures based on what kind of terrain the cover, it's terrain will probably look like the Google Earth imagery. I'm quite sure however that when you zoom in both the differences between them and the extra detail in Google Earth's imagery will be obvious. :wink:

King Of Aviators wrote:What I'm trying to say is Google Earth should be used to replace the scenery missing from the base FlightGear. MS FSX is allowed to do it. Why should an even better sim not?

statto wrote:No, this is impossible for FlightGear not because it's impossible but because Google Earth has a very restrictive license on the redistribution of their imagery

I'm very much sure that FlightGear could not even afford getting the proper licenses from Google, and also that there would be restrictions of the redistribution and the possibilities for derivate works. FlightGear would essentially not be free if it didn't use sources that allow free distribution and also distribution of derivate works. :(

Also consider the fact that the most of Google's imagery is bought from several suppliers that have licensed that imagery to Google with some limitations to protect their own businesses. :|
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Re: Google Earth Scenary for FlightGear?

Postby chris_blues » Sun Jan 02, 2011 3:00 pm

Is GoogleEarth really the only provider of satellite imagery of our lovely planet? What about NASA? As far as I know, most of their work becomes public domain? Though I don't really know what I'm talking about. It's just my 2 pennies... :roll:
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Re: Google Earth Scenary for FlightGear?

Postby Prince Dark » Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:20 am

Yes, but users can always download new tiles or use Terrasync.


The version of FlightGear I'm using (1.0.0) doesn't come with Terrasync, and downloading the scenery separately takes hours, AND the scenery is tgz files, I don't know how to use those.
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Re: Google Earth Scenary for FlightGear?

Postby Arthur Maiden » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:37 pm

Unzip them using 7zip or other extraction program.

NASA does take plenty of pretty pictures of earth, but none of them are really that good to be used for a 3000 ft elevation kinda thing, the only way to get that kind of accuracy is a very long time spent doing the landcovering on specific scenery tiles and making textures to suit from aerial photography, or mish-mashing several different textures together for the desired effect.

The best bit about good sceneries is the concentration of 3d buildings, it's all well and good having nice pictures if it's all flat, there's nothing to look at from the ground apart from the curvature of the earth, that's what was so good about Google Earth, it has 3d models in most major cites, the problem is that they have 100s of 1000s of people making these models, which FG just doesn't and never will in the next few years, so the problem with good scenery isn't the provider but the man-power available to make good quality scenery, which takes time, and time is something you don't get in large quantities, especially if you're not paying for it.
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Re: Google Earth Scenary for FlightGear?

Postby mike4lin » Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:02 pm

On X-plane there was once a tool: g2xpl
It's discontinued because of problems with google?
Look here how beautiful it looked:
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Re: Google Earth Scenary for FlightGear?

Postby 439Tiger » Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:25 pm

chris_blues wrote in Sun Jan 02, 2011 3:00 pm:Is GoogleEarth really the only provider of satellite imagery of our lovely planet? What about NASA? As far as I know, most of their work becomes public domain? Though I don't really know what I'm talking about. It's just my 2 pennies... :roll:


I'm sure you are correct, Chris. I'm sure Google doesn't own a photo satellite. As a matter of fact the data comes from these people:

Image

Google own the rights to the images that they provide, I wonder is there is a way of getting the raw data from somewhere else and using it??? 8)
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Re: Google Earth Scenary for FlightGear?

Postby Kabuki » Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:58 pm

statto wrote in Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:12 pm:Well, there are several issues here that I can see relating to FlightGear. As you probably know, this is a GPL application, which allows the user to continue to distribute our software as she or he so chooses (as long as they are within the very loose constraints of distribution). In this case, if we were to distribute this with the application, you'd have to be willing to allow your source code to be opened up under the terms of the GPL - you'd retain copyright, but that's about it. If it's Win32 only, we'd need to make it compatible as FlightGear seems to be the "Linux of Flight Simulators"


I don't know what that reference to Win32 is doing in there, because the Google Earth plugin and API are platform neutral, in that the "platform" is a web browser.

The Flightgear server online map uses the Google Earth API. I wrote an app that runs in a browser, which reads data from Flightgear's built in HTTPD server, and moves a Google Earth image around. It's not useable as a main view for the sim, but works fine for taking 'snapshots'. I haven't gone beyond a simple feasibility test.

The point is, Google is very generous with their Earth API, and nobody should think that it's "all locked up". There are many ways Google's Maps and Earth data can be used with Flightgear. If I'm reading this right, what can't be done is to make Google Earth data a necessary and integral part of Flightgear. But creating addons that use Google Data are fine with Google.
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Re: Google Earth Scenary for FlightGear?

Postby Kabuki » Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:13 pm

King Of Aviators wrote in Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:20 am:The version of FlightGear I'm using (1.0.0) doesn't come with Terrasync, and downloading the scenery separately takes hours, AND the scenery is tgz files, I don't know how to use those.


Not to be flippant with you, but "that's your problem". Why don't you install 2.0? All you have to do is check a box, enter a port number in a box, and start flying. Scenery is loaded automatically.

You're working too hard at making things too hard. Upgrade!
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