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AI & MP Dogfighting now working! Bombable ships, aircraft...

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Flying M-1s

Postby cvowen » Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:00 pm

Scene: Sun Valley Bombing Range
Upon startup my tanks are red/burning & hovering? above the ground!

SBF Ferry Invasion
Ships are there. 100% hit, but no flame/smoke from ship.

Startup with FGRUN wizard....script
Flying A-10

Followed directions....place/extract .zip file in FGFS/Data
Confirmed manually that file placed AI/Scenery/Aircraft in correct folders

Scripted Compiled Version
Ubuntu 9.10 64-bit

Any suggestions?>
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Re: AI & MP Dogfighting now working! Bombable ships, aircraft...

Postby ethan3391 » Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:03 pm

OS, and FlightGear version, please
What one fool can do, another can. (simian proverb published in the book, Calculus Made Easy by, Silvanus P. Thompson)
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Re: AI & MP Dogfighting now working! Bombable ships, aircraft...

Postby cvowen » Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:25 pm

OS - Ubuntu 9.10 64-bit
FGFS Ver. 2.0 ***
***From....FGFS/Install/FGFS/Data/Version Document

Compiled -
How installed - http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php/Scripted_Compilation_on_Linux_Debian/Ubuntu
In Terminal -
mkdir ~/fgfs
cd ~/fgfs
wget http://brisa.homelinux.net/fgfs/download_and_compile.sh
chmod 755 download_and_compile.sh
sh download_and_compile.sh

Prior to installing bombable3h.zip
Have issued following parameters: FGFS UPDATE FGFS DATA
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Re: AI & MP Dogfighting now working! Bombable ships, aircraft...

Postby jack » Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:31 am

happyflier wrote:How do I fire the guns on Fokker DR1? :?:


I have the same problem! I can't get the guns to fire in the fokker dr 1! :evil:
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Re: AI & MP Dogfighting now working! Bombable ships, aircraft...

Postby Thorsten » Sat May 08, 2010 3:32 pm

I've installed the package today to take a break from weather-making, and what can I say... it's quite addictive 8) , and the satisfaction to circle around the crash site of the other plane is quite something.

Hunting A-10 with the F-16 is rather challenging - basically they are too slow to shoot them down comfortably, and I had to learn how to kill speed and avoid overshooting without losing the target. I was surprised the planes don't show on the F-16 radar though - should they not? I know that the tanker for air-air refueling does. Hitting with the gun as such isn't so terribly difficult - but maybe I have a lot of practice - I'm an old Falcon 4.0 veteran :D With the A-10 it's much easier - both to intercept and to shoot down.

Otherwise they are very hard to see, unless contrails are on, then it's sort of possible, but still tricky. But there seem to be lots of enemy planes, so I guess the idea seems to be that there's always one nearby.

The A-10 also take a lot of punishment - maybe with the F-16 M61 vulcan gun that's sort of ok., but I've flown this with the A-10 later, and the GAU/8A is a different story - that's an anti tank gun which can penetrate 3.8 cm armour from 1000 m range - that should essentially shread an aircraft in a single burst.

When weapons hit, I get message windows (occasionally also when I just fly) - but they seem to be only loosely correlated with what I see. For example, I saw that I caused 0% damage, and the next thing I see is the enemy plane going down in flames. So as far as I am concerned, the message windows could be absent - I can always look back and see if I hit someting...

I haven't tried the WW I fighters yet - but that's probably fun as well...
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Re: AI & MP Dogfighting now working! Bombable ships, aircraft...

Postby snipey » Sat May 08, 2010 6:55 pm

i have the same problems cvowen is having but i just discovered that the ships have smoke but is is bellow the water. i saw this when i was making a low run to kill a ship and crashed. that caused the camera to go below the water and suddenly i saw smoke going down. i hope this will help with fixing the problems
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Re: AI & MP Dogfighting now working! Bombable ships, aircraft...

Postby Rick Ace » Fri May 14, 2010 6:45 pm

If there is going to be destruction, I would hope that the owner of Flightgear will seperate Flight Gear Simulator and Flight Gear Dogfights. Of course the term dogfights sound fun. But it would be a shame for people to view Flightgear as a game. Infact it's quite educational, and unlike games, this allows you to develop and put your brain to work.
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Re: AI & MP Dogfighting now working! Bombable ships, aircraft...

Postby Vodoun da Vinci » Fri May 14, 2010 8:49 pm

It depends on how you look at it/define "Game". I have been doing a lot of work developing AI scenarios and working up aircraft to work with my Bombable script and I'll tell you that my training AI scenarios using WWII era fighters is every bit as demanding as any other aspect of this 'Sim. I don't approach it as a game although it is extremely entertaining/challenging.

FGFS is software and a very powerful application that has been developed and is currently still being developed by those of us who have expectations of a particular nature. Flying airliners is boring to me although I'm very good at navigation and landings etc. Flying air to air combat scenarios and navigating without benefit of autopilots and having to land and fly Warbirds to the extent of their capabilities is very good use of the simulation for me.

While others call it a game, I use it as a simulation. I don't personally feel that the 'Sim aspect needs to be seperated from the Game aspect. And I'm using my brain plenty developing realistic AI scenarios and making various AI aircraft to involve in them.

Not to disagree with you...I just don't see the need to seperate development into gaming or 'Simming with FGFS. It's all in the mind of the user/developer and it's all good. :D

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Re: AI & MP Dogfighting now working! Bombable ships, aircraft...

Postby Rick Ace » Sat May 15, 2010 12:42 am

I don't actually mean a separate development. I just meant a strong divider that shows the difference of FlightGear Simulator, and Dog Fights. Would you really want someone to say for example:

Person A: Hey, heard of Flight Gear Sim?
Person B: Oh, yeah. It had awesome fighting. Awesome fighting game...


It's not a major problem. But I'd like FG to keep it's simulator aspect of it strong. :) Maybe I'm just overreacting :P
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Re: AI & MP Dogfighting now working! Bombable ships, aircraft...

Postby Vodoun da Vinci » Sat May 15, 2010 3:44 am

In my opinion the person that decides FGFS is about fighting/gaming because of the people or vids that depict that aspect of the 'Sim is ignorant. Not stupid..just hasn't really looked at what FGFS is really all about or how diverse the FGFS family really is. And there is no cure for this. Seperating the gamers from the simmers or the fighter pilots from the airline pilots won't solve anything. Let everyone do as he wishes with the application/platform and let folks sort out which aspect they are most attracted to.

But I understand your concern. There are folks here now (and have been for some time..) that seem to feel that they have their fingers on the pulse of the FGFS community and that if someone goes their own way or does their own thing in their own way that they are somehow disrespecting or diminutizing the power of FGFS as a simulator. It's an open source, mulitplatform application of *huge* potential. It's not what some newbie or beginner decides it is because of preconceived notions or prejudice/ignorance. It is whatever FGFS aficonados make of it and develop it to be according to their contributions and use of the software.

In my opinion.

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Re: AI & MP Dogfighting now working! Bombable ships, aircraft...

Postby MOJO » Sat May 15, 2010 10:33 am

I don't think your overreacting Rick you have an opinion like everyone else and your entitled to share it. To me, I agree with Voodoo, it all depends what you define as a "game". FG is so diverse and constantly evolving if it didn't I think many people would walk away from it. Me personally, I just love how you can change the settings to suit your mood, so if you are wanting a relaxing flight in a airliner you can do that or if you want to scream below 200ft at 600mph you can do that too :lol: as long as everyone leaves each other to their own devices there shouldnt be a problem, it only turns into a problem when people purposely go out of their way (over MP) to ruin other peoples experience of FG. I like flying alongside airliners in a fighter to capture screen shots but it's a serious NO NO if people constantly buzz you to ruin your experience of the sim and make your flight unenjoyable.

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Re: AI & MP Dogfighting now working! Bombable ships, aircraft...

Postby Thorsten » Sat May 15, 2010 2:48 pm

There is a difference between a game and a simulation of combat aircraft in their designated role. It goes roughly as follows:

If you take off, 5 minutes later you are surrounded by Migs, there's a wild shootout after which you fly on and hit your target column of tanks with a few bombs, fly back to base and mark 10 more kills, then it's a game.

If you take off, have 35 minutes of essentially uneventful flight to target, however find yourself staring nervously at the radar all the time because something could happen, then reach the target area, wonder where the hell the tanks are, try to switch to ground radar because a tank is rather small and you don't see a thing, at the same moment the threat warning lights up like a christmas tree, and the next thing you know is that you go down in flames, then it's a simulation.

Just try for a second using the F-16 to engange the A-10 targets. You need to understand the aerodynamics of the F-16 in slow flight, otherwise you can't stay in the 6 o'clock position of the A-10. For that, you need to be able to control your speed. But at such low airspeed, the nose of the F-16 actually points above the horizon. That means, even if you're behind the other aircraft, your gun points somewhere else. So, to engage, you must control speed and aircraft attitude. Then the target is dodging - so you must do all that without looking at the instruments, just from the feel of the aircraft, because your eyes need to be glued to the target, otherwise you have a fair chance of losing your target and never finding it again. In order to do all of that, you *really* need to be able to fly the F-16 and understand what it does. It's about as difficult as air-air refueling and quite a bit more difficult than carrier landings. Why on earth should anyone call that a game? It simulates the aircraft performing difficult maneuvers for which it actually is designed.

Just because the destruction of something is simulated, it doesn't mean it's a game. You may not like combat aviation - you're welcome to that attitude - but it is as legitimate to simulate combat aviation as to simulate airliner operations, and just because some people actually like to test their skills by seeing if they manage the aircraft well enough to find and hit a tank column in a gorge it doesn't mean they play a game. It actually requires far more control over your aircraft than flying from A to B.
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Re: AI & MP Dogfighting now working! Bombable ships, aircraft...

Postby Vodoun da Vinci » Sat May 15, 2010 6:21 pm

Agreed. I spend way too much time plotting an intercept course of a bomber formation that is 100 miles away and then managing the pilot workload of configuring the aircraft properly and getting the proper altitude, fuel consumption/throttle settings/mixture etc. to actually be able to fight at 20,000 - 30,000 feet. I use split S, yo-yo's and all kinds of maneuvers all the while having to mind boost and throttle settings so I don't over rev and burn out my engine on a high speed pass that ends up blowing thru the formation so fast (to minimize *me* being the target of enemy gunners...) that I get 2 seconds to target and fire a couple short bursts. Split S thru the formation (assuming one doesn't collide with the target) and drop down and around for another run until I'm out of fuel or ammunition. Yes, I count or limit my ammunition.

Then return and refuel/rearm and plot another course to intercept again. It's not a game with me and I keep designing harder and more realistic scenarios (because I can make my own in FGFS! :D ) to challenge my skills at gunnery and managing the aircraft. No autopilot, no "get out of jail free" cards...quite frequently a 40 minute chase ends up with me losing the opposing aircraft in the clouds or flying off course until I'm out of fuel or colliding with an intended target and then you start all over again.

It's not a game for me. I'm simulating historic ACM against aircraft that are fast and are turning/moving. I rarely get a shot from an aircrafts 6 oclock anymore. Always the hardest deflection shots.

For me, it's a 'Sim. It's still exciting and challenging but it's not a game with me. Then again I have no issues with folks who design a game type scenario and want to play it. Good for them. I encourage fellow FGFS aficionados to use the software as they feel they want to use it. Judge not lest ye be judged.

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Re: AI & MP Dogfighting now working! Bombable ships, aircraft...

Postby jack » Wed May 19, 2010 10:21 pm

I've noticed a major defect in the realism of bombable effects. In an ai scenario, I can pepper a plane all I want(I sometimes put thousands of rounds into one plane), and it can take over 5 minutes to go down! I'll help fix this if anyone will join me. :D
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Re: AI & MP Dogfighting now working! Bombable ships, aircraft...

Postby Thorsten » Thu May 20, 2010 6:46 am

Look into AI/Aircraft/<aircraft>-bombable/Models/<aircraft>.xml where <aircraft> is the aircraft you want to shoot down. There's a bit of Nasal defining vulnerability:

Code: Select all
#########################################
          # VULNERABILITIES DEFINITIONS       
          #
          vulnerabilities : {                   
            damageVulnerability : 2, #Vulnerability to damage from armament, 1=normal M1 tank; higher to make objects easier to kill and lower to make them more difficult.  This is a multiplier, so 5 means 5X easier to kill than an M1, 1/5 means 5X harder to kill.
           
            engineDamageVulnerability_percent : 6, #Chance that a small-caliber machine-gun round will damage the engine.       
           
            fireVulnerability_percent : 34, #Vulnerability to catching on fire. 100% means even the slightest impact will set it on fire; 20% means quite difficult to set on fire; 0% means set on fire only when completely damaged; -1% means never set on fire.                         
           
            fireDamageRate_percentpersecond : .4, #Amount of damage to add, per second, when on fire.  100%=completely damaged.
           
            fireExtinguishMaxTime_seconds : 50, #Once a fire starts, for this many seconds there is a chance to put out the fire; fires lasting longer than this won't be put out until the object burns out.
           
            fireExtinguishSuccess_percentage : 50, #Chance of the crew putting out the fire within the MaxTime above.
           
            explosiveMass_kg : 27772 , #mass of the object in KG, but give at least a 2-10X bonus to anything carrying flammables or high explosives.
          },
          #


I believe the A-10 has by default a 0.5 in there, which makes it twice as resilient as a tank - which is nonsense in my opinion. Change that number to 2-5, and you'll see it go down much faster - problemo solved. 8)
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