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Re: AI & MP Dogfighting now working! Bombable ships, aircraf

Postby DutchPilotMitchell » Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:38 am

It also looks like that the "white bullets" don't shoot aircraft down. Tried this with the b-17. But this could also be me as a bad gunner ;)
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Re: AI & MP Dogfighting now working! Bombable ships, aircraf

Postby Boeing » Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:38 pm

Wait how can you be the gunner on the B-17?
Won't be doing much anymore....
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Re: AI & MP Dogfighting now working! Bombable ships, aircraf

Postby hardy » Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:06 pm

I was testing the UFO with flug and I think we had a little too much fun with it. It is pretty fun though.
taking over the Salt Lake City Fly in for now
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Re: AI & MP Dogfighting now working! Bombable ships, aircraf

Postby flug » Sat Sep 24, 2011 3:39 am

Vodoun da Vinci wrote in Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:58 pm:I have noticed that, in previous Bombable Scripts, if I collided with the AI aircraft it counted as a "crash" and that session was over. However, in the recent versions collisions don't register - I can fly right thru the target aircraft without damage.


That's a problem or issue with underlying Flightgear. In some versions they have the crash with other aircraft turned on, in others it is turned off. I'm not entirely sure why. But in 2.4.0 the crash detection is turned off.

Bombable actually checks for collisions and will put damage for both aircraft at 100% if it detects one. But it only looks for collisions about 2X per second, which is not nearly often enough to detect the collisions reliably. If you turn it up to 10-20X per second, it noticeably affects the framerate.

I'll have to check out the fire/smoke thing.
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Re: AI & MP Dogfighting now working! Bombable ships, aircraf

Postby Vodoun da Vinci » Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:25 pm

Actually I loaded the latest version and the smoke and contrails etc. can be controlled.....so, that's not an issue any more. :D

On the collision issue, I'll try turning up the detection rate and see if it helps. Thanks so much for the continued develpment and support!

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Re: AI & MP Dogfighting now working! Bombable ships, aircraf

Postby flug » Sat Sep 24, 2011 4:39 pm

DutchPilotMitchell wrote in Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:38 am:It also looks like that the "white bullets" don't shoot aircraft down. Tried this with the b-17. But this could also be me as a bad gunner ;)


The 'white bullets' are actually a bit of a clever hack (if I may say so myself . . . ). They use the FG particle system, which allows you to have zillions of them flying around without affecting framerate too much. If you had 1/10 the 'white bullets' flying around as actual models (which are the type that the 'real' bullets from say your Zero's machine gun are in FG) that Bombable does when those B-17s are firing at you, FG's framerate would be about 0.5.

But with particle system bullets I've seen FR as high as 30-40.

But the tradeoff is that particle system doesn't detect impacts with other objects.

So (little Bombable trade secret here) the white bullets are purely a visual effect and there is another system that calculates whether there was an actual impact. It sounds like i need to tune up the synchronization between the two systems a little.

My impression is that if AI Aircraft weapon effectiveness is set to average or better than average, the white bullets and the actual hits I was receiving were pretty well synchronized.

But you're probably flying with the default settings, where the AI aircraft weapons effectiveness (in the Bombable menu) is set to below normal. (Yet I forgot to adjust the white bullet firing rate accordingly . . . ) Basically that low weapons effectiveness setting means that the AI aircraft will be missing you in a lot of situations when they really would have hit you if they were real gunners who were half awake at all. So with that setting you could probably take a lot of white bullets (visual effect) without the AI weapons (impact detection system) registering many hits.

I'll adjust that in a future version, but in the meanwhile trying turning AI Weapons Effectiveness up a notch or two and see if it doesn't appear more realistic.

In the meanwhile, you can just assume that when you adjust AI Weapons Effectiveness it makes the AI aircraft load about 99% dud bullets in their weapons . . .

Thanks for bringing this up--I don't think I'd tested with that weapons effectiveness setting yet.
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Re: AI & MP Dogfighting now working! Bombable ships, aircraf

Postby DutchPilotMitchell » Sun Sep 25, 2011 2:09 pm

ok, thanks ;)

If you use the B-17 from dave, just use the fire button on your joystick
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Re: AI & MP Dogfighting now working! Bombable ships, aircraf

Postby flug » Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:20 pm

DutchPilotMitchell wrote in Sun Sep 25, 2011 2:09 pm:ok, thanks ;)

If you use the B-17 from dave, just use the fire button on your joystick


Aha, that is a different problem altogether.

The bullets on the B-17F at Dave's Hangar are just tracers, ie, a visual effect only. They aren't set to register collisions with other aircraft, the ground, etc.

Someone could pretty easily modify the submodels.xml file in the B-17F aircraft directory to add 'real' bullets alongside the tracers, but on the B-17F stock download, the 'white bullets' are just for looks.
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Re: AI & MP Dogfighting now working! Bombable ships, aircraf

Postby Vodoun da Vinci » Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:43 pm

I'm not seeing the "white bullets" of the AI 'Bots shooting at me. Is there something I need to enable or maybe a setting for this?

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Re: AI & MP Dogfighting now working! Bombable ships, aircraf

Postby flug » Fri Sep 30, 2011 6:11 pm

Vodoun da Vinci wrote in Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:43 pm:I'm not seeing the "white bullets" of the AI 'Bots shooting at me. Is there something I need to enable or maybe a setting for this?


There is a setting in the Bombable menu (AI aircraft shooting visual effect, or something like that). It should be enabled by default, but perhaps not.

They only shoot occasionally, basically when they have you in their sites and you are close enough. You can try it by, say, flying straight behind and within 100 yards of the B-17 bombers or straight in front of & 45 degrees above the tanks, less than 100 yards away, etc.
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Re: AI & MP Dogfighting now working! Bombable ships, aircraf

Postby flug » Fri Sep 30, 2011 6:14 pm

flug wrote in Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:20 pm:
DutchPilotMitchell wrote in Sun Sep 25, 2011 2:09 pm:ok, thanks ;)

If you use the B-17 from dave, just use the fire button on your joystick


Aha, that is a different problem altogether.

The bullets on the B-17F at Dave's Hangar are just tracers, ie, a visual effect only. They aren't set to register collisions with other aircraft, the ground, etc.


Just for fun I modded the /B-17F/submodels.xml file to make the bullets 'real' rather than just tracers. I also added two guns in front (which, interestingly enough, the real B-17Gs had), since I'm far too klutzy to aim those guns pointing off at angles to the sides & rear.

Just replace the B-17F submodels.xml file (from Dave's Hangar) with this:

Code: Select all
<?xml version="1.0"?>

<PropertyList>

  <!-- NOTES:  weight = lbs, speed = fps, offsets in feet, delay in seconds -->
  <!--         eda (drag area) in square feet, cd is dimensionless  -->

  <!-- ################################################### -->
  <!-- #                                                 # -->
  <!-- #   Guns,  50cal                                  # -->
  <!-- #                                                 # -->
  <!-- ################################################### -->

  <!-- B-17Gs (last/most advanced version of the B-17)
  carried 6,380 rounds of ammunition, 13 guns.
  http://northstargallery.com/aircraft/b17/about.htm
  That averages 490 per gun.  Probably some had 400 and some 600 rounds.
  The waist guns had 600 rounds.
 
  Some of the gun turrets operated electrically while others
  were manually operated by a gunner.
   -->
  <submodel>
    <name>chin-turret-tracers-r .50 BMG</name>
    <model>Aircraft/DavePack/Stores/guns/tracer.xml</model>
    <trigger>controls/armament/trigger</trigger>
    <speed>2840.0</speed>
    <repeat>true</repeat>
    <delay>0.07</delay>
    <count>-1</count>
    <x-offset> -1</x-offset>
    <y-offset> .25</y-offset>
    <z-offset> -1.0</z-offset>
    <yaw-offset>0.0</yaw-offset>
    <pitch-offset>0</pitch-offset>
    <life>4.5</life>
    <wind>false</wind>
    <weight>0.130072735</weight>
    <cd>0.193</cd>
    <eda>0.00571198</eda>
    <collision>true</collision>
    <collision-report>sim/ai/aircraft/collision/gun</collision-report>
    <impact>true</impact>
    <impact-report>sim/ai/aircraft/impact/bullet</impact-report>   
  </submodel>

  <submodel>
    <name>chin-turret-tracers-l .50 BMG</name>
    <model>Aircraft/DavePack/Stores/guns/tracer.xml</model>
    <trigger>controls/armament/trigger</trigger>
    <speed>2840.0</speed>
    <repeat>true</repeat>
    <delay>0.07</delay>
    <count>-1</count>
    <x-offset> -.25</x-offset>
    <y-offset> -.25</y-offset>
    <z-offset> -1.0</z-offset>
    <yaw-offset>0.0</yaw-offset>
    <pitch-offset>0</pitch-offset>
    <life>4.5</life>
    <wind>false</wind>
    <weight>0.130072735</weight>
    <cd>0.193</cd>
    <eda>0.00571198</eda>
    <collision>true</collision>
    <collision-report>sim/ai/aircraft/collision/gun</collision-report>
    <impact>true</impact>
    <impact-report>sim/ai/aircraft/impact/bullet</impact-report>   
  </submodel>


  <submodel>
    <name>upper-turret-tracers .50 BMG</name>
    <model>Aircraft/DavePack/Stores/guns/tracer.xml</model>
    <trigger>controls/armament/trigger</trigger>
    <speed>2840.0</speed>
    <repeat>true</repeat>
    <delay>0.6</delay>
    <count>-1</count>
    <x-offset> 3.0</x-offset>
    <y-offset> 0.0</y-offset>
    <z-offset> 4.0</z-offset>
    <yaw-offset>180.0</yaw-offset>
    <pitch-offset>20</pitch-offset>
    <life>4.0</life>
    <wind>false</wind>
    <weight>0.130072735</weight>
    <cd>0.193</cd>
    <eda>0.00571198</eda>
    <collision>true</collision>
    <collision-report>sim/ai/aircraft/collision/gun</collision-report>
    <impact>true</impact>
    <impact-report>sim/ai/aircraft/impact/bullet</impact-report>   
  </submodel>

  <submodel>
    <name>ball-turret-tracers .50 BMG</name>
    <model>Aircraft/DavePack/Stores/guns/tracer.xml</model>
    <trigger>controls/armament/trigger</trigger>
    <speed>2840.0</speed>
    <repeat>true</repeat>
    <delay>0.6</delay>
    <count>-1</count>
    <x-offset> -16.0</x-offset>
    <y-offset>  0.0</y-offset>
    <z-offset> -4.0</z-offset>
    <yaw-offset>0.0</yaw-offset>
    <pitch-offset>-150</pitch-offset>
    <life>4.0</life>
    <wind>false</wind>
    <weight>0.130072735</weight>
    <cd>0.193</cd>
    <eda>0.00571198</eda>
    <collision>true</collision>
    <collision-report>sim/ai/aircraft/collision/gun</collision-report>
    <impact>true</impact>
    <impact-report>sim/ai/aircraft/impact/bullet</impact-report>
  </submodel>

  <submodel>
    <name>tail-guns-tracers .50 BMG</name>
    <model>Aircraft/DavePack/Stores/guns/tracer.xml</model>
    <trigger>controls/armament/trigger</trigger>
    <speed>2840.0</speed>
    <repeat>true</repeat>
    <delay>0.6</delay>
    <count>-1</count>
    <x-offset>-28.0</x-offset>
    <y-offset> 0.0</y-offset>
    <z-offset> 0.0</z-offset>
    <yaw-offset>180.0</yaw-offset>
    <pitch-offset>0</pitch-offset>
    <life>4.0</life>
    <wind>false</wind>
    <weight>0.130072735</weight>
    <cd>0.193</cd>
    <eda>0.00571198</eda>
    <collision>true</collision>
    <collision-report>sim/ai/aircraft/collision/gun</collision-report>
    <impact>true</impact>
    <impact-report>sim/ai/aircraft/impact/bullet</impact-report>
  </submodel>

  <submodel>
    <name>right-waist-gun-tracers .50 BMG</name>
    <model>Aircraft/DavePack/Stores/guns/tracer.xml</model>
    <trigger>controls/armament/trigger</trigger>
    <speed>2840.0</speed>
    <repeat>true</repeat>
    <delay>0.6</delay>
    <count>-1</count>
    <x-offset> -18.0</x-offset>
    <y-offset>  4.0</y-offset>
    <z-offset>  1.0</z-offset>
    <yaw-offset>90.0</yaw-offset>
    <pitch-offset>0</pitch-offset>
    <life>3.0</life>
    <life>4.0</life>
    <wind>false</wind>
    <weight>0.130072735</weight>
    <cd>0.193</cd>
    <eda>0.00571198</eda>
    <collision>true</collision>
    <collision-report>sim/ai/aircraft/collision/gun</collision-report>
    <impact>true</impact>
    <impact-report>sim/ai/aircraft/impact/bullet</impact-report>
  </submodel>

  <submodel>
    <name>left-waist-gun-tracers .50 BMG</name>
    <model>Aircraft/DavePack/Stores/guns/tracer.xml</model>
    <trigger>controls/armament/trigger</trigger>
    <speed>2840.0</speed>
    <repeat>true</repeat>
    <delay>0.6</delay>
    <count>-1</count>
    <x-offset> -20.0</x-offset>
    <y-offset> -4.0</y-offset>
    <z-offset>  1.0</z-offset>
    <yaw-offset>-90.0</yaw-offset>
    <pitch-offset>0</pitch-offset>
    <life>4.0</life>
    <wind>false</wind>
    <weight>0.130072735</weight>
    <cd>0.193</cd>
    <eda>0.00571198</eda>
    <collision>true</collision>
    <collision-report>sim/ai/aircraft/collision/gun</collision-report>
    <impact>true</impact>
    <impact-report>sim/ai/aircraft/impact/bullet</impact-report>
  </submodel>



  <!-- ################################################### -->
  <!-- #                                                 # -->
  <!-- #   Bombs,  500lb x 8                             # -->
  <!-- #                                                 # -->
  <!-- ################################################### -->

   <!-- Bomb capcity of B-17: 8000 lb for short range missions < 400 mi,
   4500 lb for long range missions 800 miles, 17,600 lbs = overload capacity,
   per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_B-17_Flying_Fortress -->
  <submodel>
    <name>drop bomb - 1 - MK-82</name>
    <model>Aircraft/DavePack/Stores/M64/m64.ac</model>
    <trigger>fdm/jsbsim/systems/armament/bomb1/released</trigger>
    <trigger-once>true</trigger-once>
    <speed>0</speed>
    <count>2</count>
    <x-offset> 1.0</x-offset>
    <y-offset>-2.0</y-offset>
    <z-offset>-6.0</z-offset>
    <yaw-offset>0.0</yaw-offset>
    <pitch-offset>-3</pitch-offset>
    <weight>500</weight>
    <cd>0.3</cd>
    <eda>1.0</eda>
    <collision>false</collision>
    <impact>true</impact>
    <impact-report>sim/ai/aircraft/bomb/1</impact-report>
    <submodel-path>Aircraft/DavePack/Stores/Mk82/MK-82-submodels.xml</submodel-path>
  </submodel>

  <submodel>
    <name>drop bomb - 2 - MK-82</name>
    <model>Aircraft/DavePack/Stores/M64/m64.ac</model>
    <trigger>fdm/jsbsim/systems/armament/bomb2/released</trigger>
    <trigger-once>true</trigger-once>
    <speed>0</speed>
    <count>2</count>
    <x-offset> 1.0</x-offset>
    <y-offset> 2.0</y-offset>
    <z-offset>-6.0</z-offset>
    <yaw-offset>0.0</yaw-offset>
    <pitch-offset>-3</pitch-offset>
    <weight>500</weight>
    <cd>0.3</cd>
    <eda>1.0</eda>
    <collision>false</collision>
    <impact>true</impact>
    <impact-report>sim/ai/aircraft/bomb/2</impact-report>
    <submodel-path>Aircraft/DavePack/Stores/Mk82/MK-82-submodels.xml</submodel-path>
  </submodel>

  <submodel>
    <name>drop bomb - 3 - MK-82</name>
    <model>Aircraft/DavePack/Stores/M64/m64.ac</model>
    <trigger>fdm/jsbsim/systems/armament/bomb3/released</trigger>
    <trigger-once>true</trigger-once>
    <speed>0</speed>
    <count>2</count>
    <x-offset>-3.0</x-offset>
    <y-offset>-2.0</y-offset>
    <z-offset>-6.0</z-offset>
    <yaw-offset>0.0</yaw-offset>
    <pitch-offset>-3</pitch-offset>
    <weight>500</weight>
    <cd>0.3</cd>
    <eda>1.0</eda>
    <collision>false</collision>
    <impact>true</impact>
    <impact-report>sim/ai/aircraft/bomb/3</impact-report>
    <submodel-path>Aircraft/DavePack/Stores/Mk82/MK-82-submodels.xml</submodel-path>
  </submodel>

  <submodel>
    <name>drop bomb - 4 - MK-82</name>
    <model>Aircraft/DavePack/Stores/M64/m64.ac</model>
    <trigger>fdm/jsbsim/systems/armament/bomb4/released</trigger>
    <trigger-once>true</trigger-once>
    <speed>0</speed>
    <count>2</count>
    <x-offset>-3.0</x-offset>
    <y-offset> 2.0</y-offset>
    <z-offset>-6.0</z-offset>
    <yaw-offset>0.0</yaw-offset>
    <pitch-offset>-3</pitch-offset>
    <weight>500</weight>
    <cd>0.3</cd>
    <eda>1.0</eda>
    <collision>false</collision>
    <impact>true</impact>
    <impact-report>sim/ai/aircraft/bomb/4</impact-report>
    <submodel-path>Aircraft/DavePack/Stores/Mk82/MK-82-submodels.xml</submodel-path>
  </submodel>

  <submodel>
    <name>drop bomb - 5 - MK-82</name>
    <model>Aircraft/DavePack/Stores/M64/m64.ac</model>
    <trigger>fdm/jsbsim/systems/armament/bomb5/released</trigger>
    <trigger-once>true</trigger-once>
    <speed>0</speed>
    <count>2</count>
    <x-offset> 1.0</x-offset>
    <y-offset>-2.0</y-offset>
    <z-offset>-6.0</z-offset>
    <yaw-offset>0.0</yaw-offset>
    <pitch-offset>-3</pitch-offset>
    <weight>500</weight>
    <cd>0.3</cd>
    <eda>1.0</eda>
    <collision>false</collision>
    <impact>true</impact>
    <impact-report>sim/ai/aircraft/bomb/5</impact-report>
    <submodel-path>Aircraft/DavePack/Stores/Mk82/MK-82-submodels.xml</submodel-path>
  </submodel>

  <submodel>
    <name>drop bomb - 6 - MK-82</name>
    <model>Aircraft/DavePack/Stores/M64/m64.ac</model>
    <trigger>fdm/jsbsim/systems/armament/bomb6/released</trigger>
    <trigger-once>true</trigger-once>
    <speed>0</speed>
    <count>2</count>
    <x-offset> 1.0</x-offset>
    <y-offset> 2.0</y-offset>
    <z-offset>-6.0</z-offset>
    <yaw-offset>0.0</yaw-offset>
    <pitch-offset>-3</pitch-offset>
    <weight>500</weight>
    <cd>0.3</cd>
    <eda>1.0</eda>
    <collision>false</collision>
    <impact>true</impact>
    <impact-report>sim/ai/aircraft/bomb/6</impact-report>
    <submodel-path>Aircraft/DavePack/Stores/Mk82/MK-82-submodels.xml</submodel-path>
  </submodel>

  <submodel>
    <name>drop bomb - 7 - MK-82</name>
    <model>Aircraft/DavePack/Stores/M64/m64.ac</model>
    <trigger>fdm/jsbsim/systems/armament/bomb7/released</trigger>
    <trigger-once>true</trigger-once>
    <speed>0</speed>
    <count>2</count>
    <x-offset>-3.0</x-offset>
    <y-offset>-2.0</y-offset>
    <z-offset>-6.0</z-offset>
    <yaw-offset>0.0</yaw-offset>
    <pitch-offset>-3</pitch-offset>
    <weight>500</weight>
    <cd>0.3</cd>
    <eda>1.0</eda>
    <collision>false</collision>
    <impact>true</impact>
    <impact-report>sim/ai/aircraft/bomb/7</impact-report>
    <submodel-path>Aircraft/DavePack/Stores/Mk82/MK-82-submodels.xml</submodel-path>
  </submodel>

  <submodel>
    <name>drop bomb - 8 - MK-82</name>
    <model>Aircraft/DavePack/Stores/M64/m64.ac</model>
    <trigger>fdm/jsbsim/systems/armament/bomb8/released</trigger>
    <trigger-once>true</trigger-once>
    <speed>0</speed>
    <count>2</count>
    <x-offset>-3.0</x-offset>
    <y-offset> 2.0</y-offset>
    <z-offset>-6.0</z-offset>
    <yaw-offset>0.0</yaw-offset>
    <pitch-offset>-3</pitch-offset>
    <weight>500</weight>
    <cd>0.3</cd>
    <eda>1.0</eda>
    <collision>false</collision>
    <impact>true</impact>
    <impact-report>sim/ai/aircraft/bomb/8</impact-report>
    <submodel-path>Aircraft/DavePack/Stores/Mk82/MK-82-submodels.xml</submodel-path>
  </submodel>

</PropertyList>
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Re: AI & MP Dogfighting now working! Bombable ships, aircraf

Postby DutchPilotMitchell » Fri Sep 30, 2011 6:37 pm

You're amazing flug ;)
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Re: AI & MP Dogfighting now working! Bombable ships, aircraf

Postby skibot » Sat Oct 01, 2011 1:14 pm

Hello,
Can anybody make bombable f 15 with minigun, sidewinders and mavericks?

I can't do that, i've spent whole day trying to cut some code from A6M2b and paste it to my F15 but it stil doesn't work.
Actualy i try to make Multiplayer scenario of Desert Storm operation, so i need bombable F15 and Mig29. I've just made livery to f15.
If anybody help i'll be very broud, and I could finish my scenario as soon as possible!
SP-SKB
EPWR
Boeing 777 and AN225
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Re: AI & MP Dogfighting now working! Bombable ships, aircraf

Postby DutchPilotMitchell » Sat Oct 01, 2011 1:57 pm

There already is an F-15 with guns, have a look at their development forum:
www.fguk.eu
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Re: AI & MP Dogfighting now working! Bombable ships, aircraf

Postby flug » Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:42 pm

We're now to Bombable 2.4k (devel).

Newest features are:

* YOUR OWN WEAPONS CAN DAMAGE YOU: Drop a bomb on your own aircraft or too near it? You'll see the results--damage to your aircraft. This makes bombing runs far more realistic--if you get too close to the bomb impact, you'll feel the results.

* IMPACT VISUALS, SMOKE, AND FIRE SHOWN ON SCENERY: If you drop a bomb on a scenery or a building, you see an explosion and a long-lasting fire--just as you do when you bomb a jeep, tank, or airplane. Previously, the bombs, guns, rockets, and other armament only had an effect on AI and MP
aircraft, tanks, ships, and so on. Now armament hits affect almost everything in the FlightGear world.

* RE-SPAWN AI AIRCRAFT: After you have shot down (or been shot down by!) AI aircraft in scenarios, you can instantly re-spawn them and try again. (Available in the Bombable menu.)

This makes flying scenarios more fun and also fixes one of the basic problems of FG and Bombable right now, that the framerate necessarily suffers when there are too many AI aircraft launched. You can really only fight 2, 3, or maybe 4 aircraft at once and framerates with only 2-4 AI aircraft the framerates are pretty good.

So use a scenario with just a few aircraft (the ones labelled 'simple' in the Bombable distribution are good) and just re-spawn as necessary.

* As always, numerous bug fixes and internal improvements.

Download here:
http://brenthugh.com/flightgear/bombable4-4kdevel.zip
Last edited by flug on Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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