Board index FlightGear Development New features

AI & MP Dogfighting now working! Bombable ships, aircraft...

Discussion and requests for new features. Please note that FlightGear developers are volunteers and may or may not be able to consider these requests.

Re: AI & MP Dogfighting now working! Bombable ships, aircraf

Postby imagio » Thu May 08, 2014 5:11 am

Wow this seems very cool. I could not have known about it if I had not been browsing the forums. Is there a reason why this is not included by default with FG?
imagio
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:31 pm
Location: Pittsburgh
OS: Win 8.1

Re: AI & MP Dogfighting now working! Bombable ships, aircraf

Postby HJ1AN » Thu May 15, 2014 7:36 am

I believe it is part of an option in the View menu now. Well at least in 3.0 it has it.
User avatar
HJ1AN
 
Posts: 377
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:45 am
Callsign: HJ888
Version: 3.4
OS: OS X

Re: AI & MP Dogfighting now working! Bombable ships, aircraf

Postby Thorsten » Thu May 15, 2014 10:03 am

Is there a reason why this is not included by default with FG?


Yes, a decision by the core devel community that FG should remain a civilian simulation and not include combat sim features.
Thorsten
 
Posts: 10950
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:33 am

Re: AI & MP Dogfighting now working! Bombable ships, aircraf

Postby Rick Ace » Thu May 15, 2014 10:46 pm

Thorsten wrote in Thu May 15, 2014 10:03 am:a decision by the core devel community that FG should remain a civilian simulation


A good decision that will make Flightgear a truly international software. ;)
Rick Ace
 
Posts: 1023
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 6:02 pm
Location: New York City
Callsign: rickace
Version: 2.6.0
OS: Vista

Re: AI & MP Dogfighting now working! Bombable ships, aircraf

Postby Hooray » Thu May 15, 2014 10:56 pm

Unless I am not aware of some more recent behind-the-scenes discussion, I don't believe this to be the case - according to public devel list discussions, most of the senior core developers were actually supportive of developing and including such functionality, as long as it remained entirely optional, people just weren't too eager to develop things in C++ space just for combat, but fully realizing that most building blocks would also come in handy in a civilian context.

There've been roughly a dozen attempts at integrating combat functionality into FG, and most of them failed for other reasons - this one worked out, exactly because it didn't depend on the developer community, i.e. because it's a scripting space "add-on". Which kinda makes sense given that patches typically will take months to be reviewed, and given that combat development has never been a priority.

Even long-before bombable, we've had combat aircraft, including functional weapons.
Please don't send support requests by PM, instead post your questions on the forum so that all users can contribute and benefit
Thanks & all the best,
Hooray
Help write next month's newsletter !
pui2canvas | MapStructure | Canvas Development | Programming resources
Hooray
 
Posts: 11329
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:40 am

Re: AI & MP Dogfighting now working! Bombable ships, aircraf

Postby HJ1AN » Tue May 20, 2014 7:41 am

HJ1AN wrote in Thu May 15, 2014 7:36 am:I believe it is part of an option in the View menu now. Well at least in 3.0 it has it.



Oops, I confused it with something else. :oops:
User avatar
HJ1AN
 
Posts: 377
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:45 am
Callsign: HJ888
Version: 3.4
OS: OS X

Re: AI & MP Dogfighting now working! Bombable ships, aircraf

Postby imagio » Tue May 20, 2014 5:45 pm

Hooray wrote in Thu May 15, 2014 10:56 pm:Unless I am not aware of some more recent behind-the-scenes discussion, I don't believe this to be the case - according to public devel list discussions, most of the senior core developers were actually supportive of developing and including such functionality, as long as it remained entirely optional, people just weren't too eager to develop things in C++ space just for combat, but fully realizing that most building blocks would also come in handy in a civilian context.

There've been roughly a dozen attempts at integrating combat functionality into FG, and most of them failed for other reasons - this one worked out, exactly because it didn't depend on the developer community, i.e. because it's a scripting space "add-on". Which kinda makes sense given that patches typically will take months to be reviewed, and given that combat development has never been a priority.

Even long-before bombable, we've had combat aircraft, including functional weapons.


Including this functionality in the default FG distribution and advertising it as a feature might attract new people to FG. Also by including a default implementation of combat it might focus future development effort in one place rather than adding to those dozen failed attempts you mentioned. Things like this are the really cool and innovative stuff that makes FG stand out from commercial sims. It is a shame IMO to see it hidden away on the forum instead of shown off to the world at large!
imagio
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:31 pm
Location: Pittsburgh
OS: Win 8.1

Re: AI & MP Dogfighting now working! Bombable ships, aircraf

Postby Hooray » Tue May 20, 2014 6:12 pm

the code would need some restructuring so that it is turned into a fully optional feauture (i.e. Nasal submodule), and there's other work necessary to even make inclusion feasible.
But like Thorsten said, first of all one would need to discuss this probably, so that people committing this, don't end up causing irritation - and flug is not much around these days, but he did say several times that he also would have loved to see it included. But as others have stated, most people are hesitant - because this combines a number of controversial issues, i.e. a non-trivial scripting space subsystem, and combat support itself obviously.
Please don't send support requests by PM, instead post your questions on the forum so that all users can contribute and benefit
Thanks & all the best,
Hooray
Help write next month's newsletter !
pui2canvas | MapStructure | Canvas Development | Programming resources
Hooray
 
Posts: 11329
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:40 am

Re: AI & MP Dogfighting now working! Bombable ships, aircraf

Postby Necolatis » Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:32 pm

About the multiplayer properties.

1st, what are they needed for? Isn't the submodels enough, with their name and impact reports? A trigger cannot tell if an opponent is hit anyway.

2nd, when using multiple triggers for MP, how does bombable know how many of those ints are used for triggers? Does it count the number of weapons defined and assume that's the amount of triggers needed. For example using int 10 - 14 for triggers, and int 15 for something else unrelated to bombable, how do I show bombable int 15 is not a trigger.

3rd, And why the string 9, think strings are disabled for MP, so what point does it have?
"Airplane travel is nature's way of making you look like your passport photo."
— Al Gore


Hangar: https://sites.google.com/site/fghangar/
User avatar
Necolatis
 
Posts: 1943
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:40 am
Location: EKOD
Callsign: Leto
IRC name: Neco
Version: 2019.1.2
OS: Windows 10

Re: AI & MP Dogfighting now working! Bombable ships, aircraf

Postby AndersG » Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:07 pm

Necolatis wrote in Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:32 pm:3rd, And why the string 9, think strings are disabled for MP, so what point does it have?


Strings are not disabled over MP. As the only supported variable length type they are a bit dangerous, though - but they offer a way to use space in the packets "on demand" - and "only" send the empty string (it is not as small as one could hope) otherwise.
Callsign: SE-AG
Aircraft (uhm...): Submarine Scout, Zeppelin NT, ZF Navy free balloon, Nordstern, Hindenburg, Short Empire flying-boat, ZNP-K, North Sea class, MTB T21 class, U.S.S. Monitor, MFI-9B, Type UB I submarine, Gokstad ship, Renault FT.
AndersG
 
Posts: 2441
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:20 am
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
Callsign: SE-AG
OS: Debian GNU Linux

Re: AI & MP Dogfighting now working! Bombable ships, aircraf

Postby Bomber » Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:13 am

Thorsten wrote in Thu May 15, 2014 10:03 am:
Is there a reason why this is not included by default with FG?


Yes, a decision by the core devel community that FG should remain a civilian simulation and not include combat sim features.



So if that's true the blarny that FG welcomes combat development is codswallop.

I think these 'core' developers that make this decision behind invite only closed forum doors of an open source SIM should be ashamed of themselves.
"If anyone ever tells you anything about an aeroplane which is so bloody complicated you can't understand it, take it from me - it's all balls" - R J Mitchel
Bomber
 
Posts: 1934
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:06 pm
OS: Windows XP and 10

Re: AI & MP Dogfighting now working! Bombable ships, aircraf

Postby flyingfisch » Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:21 pm

Someone should fork FG and make a full-blown Combat Simulator out of it, with campaigns and stuff....
Beechcraft A35 Bonanza
Wiki Page
GitHub Repo
Improving the 737-300
Forum Thread
All my projects
User avatar
flyingfisch
 
Posts: 306
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:11 pm
IRC name: ffisch
Version: 3.0
OS: Ubuntu 12.04

Re: AI & MP Dogfighting now working! Bombable ships, aircraf

Postby Bomber » Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:30 pm

Some group... It's too much for a single person.
"If anyone ever tells you anything about an aeroplane which is so bloody complicated you can't understand it, take it from me - it's all balls" - R J Mitchel
Bomber
 
Posts: 1934
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:06 pm
OS: Windows XP and 10

Re: AI & MP Dogfighting now working! Bombable ships, aircraf

Postby Hooray » Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:41 pm

you primarily need to find a committer to commit this, not necessarily a core developer - but the real pain is discussing this on the devel list, which is not just "courtesy" but probably a prerequisiste. I don't see any real obstacles though, just a lot of inertia. I don't quite agree that something like this should be kept separate. Maintenance would be a pain.
However, TheTom & Zakalawe have been working on a Canvas-based aircraft installer for 3.2 using a "new" catalog metadata system that is XML-based.
This feature will also support 3rd party "hangars" - and it is feasible, and even foreseeable, that the same feature could be extended to allow custom "mods" to be deployed and installed much more easily.
We'd just need to formalize how such 3rd party "add-ons" are to be developed, structured and organized.
Bombable should require very little to be deployed like this, and it could make the add-on accessible to hundreds, or even thousands, of FG users who would no longer need to be very FG savvy.
Please don't send support requests by PM, instead post your questions on the forum so that all users can contribute and benefit
Thanks & all the best,
Hooray
Help write next month's newsletter !
pui2canvas | MapStructure | Canvas Development | Programming resources
Hooray
 
Posts: 11329
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:40 am

Re: AI & MP Dogfighting now working! Bombable ships, aircraf

Postby Necolatis » Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:21 pm

Found this in my console, not sure what I did to trigger it:

Nasal runtime error: non-objects have no members
at d:/ProgramFiles/Development/Git/fgdata/Nasal/bombable.nas, line 288
"Airplane travel is nature's way of making you look like your passport photo."
— Al Gore


Hangar: https://sites.google.com/site/fghangar/
User avatar
Necolatis
 
Posts: 1943
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:40 am
Location: EKOD
Callsign: Leto
IRC name: Neco
Version: 2019.1.2
OS: Windows 10

PreviousNext

Return to New features

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests