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Request: User-Friendly Photoscenery Support

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Request: User-Friendly Photoscenery Support

Postby TribalBob » Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:51 pm

I know there exists the fgphotoscenery project (which already has 3m/pixel sattelite images available under GPL) as well as some way to integrate FG with osgEarth but all of the current methods are either beyond the scope of capabilities for the average end-user or the guides for how to implement them are outdated, incomplete or not easy enough for the average end-user to implement on their own.

I also know that there exists a substantial portion of the community who have expressed multiple times over quite a few years now their desire for photoscenery in FG.

It is my personal belief that having a user-friendly way to implement real-world scenery in FlightGear would breathe new life into this community because as things stand right now, you can logon to the multiplayer servers at any given time and the most people you will ever see online worldwide is about 30.

There is literally ONE regular ATC who is able to work for two hours at a time at ONE airport on the days that he's able to do it (God bless him).

The FlightGear devs are doing a great job, I do truly love this simulator but I am really longing for a TRUE multiplayer experience like the ones I see on YouTube videos for other flight simulators, but out of the 187 users in my VA, four of us are FlightGear pilots and those numbers are similar at pretty much EVERY VA.

We can't fly with the other people in our VA because there is no FSHost support for FlightGear so we either have to coordinate with each other (which has been Hell so far) or get on the FG multiplayer servers and hope and pray that there is someone near us out of the 20-30 people who MIGHT be online who is interested in participating in a flight with us (which i have yet to happen as every time I get on multiplayer and attempt to get near someone to communicate with them, they either sign off or are ignoring their chat.

I have never had a multiplayer experience in FlightGear and it is certainly not for a lack of trying.

I'm not blaming the world scenery and I'm not saying that the only reason i want native, user-friendly support for photoscenery is to revive the community because that would be a lie, I definitely want the real-world textures for my own enjoyment but I firmly believe this community could use a revival and I firmly believe a simple, intuitive way for the average user to implement photoscenery could DEFINITELY do the trick because I for one would start streaming my flights and I bet the other people who used to do do FlightGear videos and streams would start doing them again too instead of the X-Plane and FSX videos they are doing now.

Just my two cents.

At any rate, I'm still going to continue to use FlightGear either way and I greatly appreciate the work of the devs and the time/effort they dedicate to this project as you guys have truly brought a childhood dream to life for someone who is physically and financially unable to pursue that dream in real life.
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Re: Request: User-Friendly Photoscenery Support

Postby Thorsten » Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:54 pm

As indicated in the other thread, this request has come repeatedly, none of the active developers is interested, nobody is opposed to it - all it needs is the appearance of a developer who is interested and wants to invest the (not negligible) amount of work this takes.

Unless such a developer is found, it won't happen no matter how many people would like it for whatever reason.
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Re: Request: User-Friendly Photoscenery Support

Postby TribalBob » Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:12 pm

Thorsten wrote in Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:54 pm:As indicated in the other thread, this request has come repeatedly, none of the active developers is interested, nobody is opposed to it - all it needs is the appearance of a developer who is interested and wants to invest the (not negligible) amount of work this takes.

Unless such a developer is found, it won't happen no matter how many people would like it.


Well, since you pointed out the other thread was posted in the wrong location, I decided I would make my own thread in the appropriate location.

And you're right, unless such a developer is found, it WILL never happen, hence my thread here, seeking such a developer or at least someone who might have better information than what I have been able to find on how to compile FlightGear with photoscenery or osgEarth support myself.

Maybe we can let the other users and devs speak for themselves on what they would or would not like to do or what they can and can't help me with instead of you just deciding that you speak for everyone...?

Maybe there's a dev in this project who can see the value in reviving/growing the FlightGear community who might be willing and able to invest the time for one of the most requested features for FlightGear and would be willing to either "code it yourself" as you succinctly told me in the other thread or perhaps would be willing to take a stab at writing a more user-friendly guide to implementing photoscenery or osgEarth support ourselves.
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Re: Request: User-Friendly Photoscenery Support

Postby Thorsten » Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:26 pm

Maybe we can let the other users and devs speak for themselves on what they would or would not like to do or what they can and can't help me with instead of you just deciding that you speak for everyone...?


You're probably not aware of that, but the majority of active developers rarely to never visit the forum - mostly to avoid unpleasant tone of users who don't get what they want. So I'm one of the few people who pass information from the mailing list to the forum and vice versa (one other is wkitty).

I'm certainly not trying to prevent anyone else from speaking here what he wants to do it.

Maybe there's a dev in this project who can see the value in reviving/growing the FlightGear community who might be willing and able to invest the time for one of the most requested features for FlightGear


Please be realistic here - it's definitely not one of the most requested features for FlightGear - in fact it ranks quite low in what is requested - and if you grow the MP community, you'll quickly see the limits of the hardware running it. You couldn't host a few hundred people in the MP environment if they'd show up tomorrow - it runs on what bandwidth volunteers donate and would collapse. So rapidly expanding the number of MP users isn't particularly desirable for anyone.

But - maybe I'll just leave it here - if someone responds positively we're both in luck because some new workforce arrives - if not, then you can re-read my explanation why not :D
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Re: Request: User-Friendly Photoscenery Support

Postby TribalBob » Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:03 pm

You're probably not aware of that, but the majority of active developers rarely to never visit the forum - mostly to avoid unpleasant tone of users who don't get what they want.

Since I'm pretty sure this is an "under-your-breath" jab at me, I'd just like to point out, my "tone" towards you has nothing to do with me not getting what I want, it's the disrespectful tone that YOU gave me in the other thread when I expressed a desire for photorealistic world scenery telling me to 'code it myself". To that point, you and I had not spoken/interacted and that was the very first thing you said to me. I treat others how they treat me. Your first interaction with me was one of disrespect, so i shot some disrespect right back your way. Facts.

If you're going to be butt-hurt about it, go ahead but don't act like this is about me being upset that i'm not getting my way.

I'm certainly not trying to prevent anyone else from speaking here what he wants to do it.

Again, I never said anyone was actively trying to prevent it.

Please be realistic here - it's definitely not one of the most requested features for FlightGear - in fact it ranks quite low in what is requested - and if you grow the MP community, you'll quickly see the limits of the hardware running it. You couldn't host a few hundred people in the MP environment if they'd show up tomorrow - it runs on what bandwidth volunteers donate and would collapse. So rapidly expanding the number of MP users isn't particularly desirable for anyone.

You can say it's not one of the most requested features but it is the ONLY feature I have seen consistently requested for more than 11 years now.

And server bandwidth is never an acceptable excuse to hold back development, what kind of dev are you...?

Just like any other user-supported community if the need for more servers/bandwidth arises, there will ALWAYS be volunteers ready to throw up a new server.
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Re: Request: User-Friendly Photoscenery Support

Postby Thorsten » Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:11 pm

but it is the ONLY feature I have seen consistently requested for more than 11 years now.


It may be the only you've seen - but it's definitely not the only one that's been requested for that timeframe either, sorry.

And server bandwidth is never an acceptable excuse to hold back development, what kind of dev are you...?


I personally am a developer who's exclusively interested in offline usage of FG - never cared for MP, never will. We all have our areas of interest.

Just like any other user-supported community if the need for more servers/bandwidth arises, there will ALWAYS be volunteers ready to throw up a new server.


Right... like it historically has reliably happened. In reality, mindless optimism that 'the community' of volunteers will take care of issues gets you only so far... Let's say I wouldn't bet on it, it has never really worked out so far.

***

Admittedly I don't get people like you - you're using (literally) thousands of hours of my work for which I requested nothing in return - and yet you feel entirely free to call me 'prick' and 'jerk' while I maintain politeness - even if I had intentionally 'given you attitude' by all measure you'd still owe me some thanks for letting you use my stuff and could cut me some slack, rather than go ballistic on the first perceived insult.

You seem to believe that just because there's no activity where you're looking there is no activity rather than to look where the activity is, and at the end you seem to hope that people will respond positively to you and your requests after your show of developer-insulting.

It hasn't worked out for anyone who tried this technique so far.

Try politeness and respect instead - and people will respond better to you.

Bye.
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Re: Request: User-Friendly Photoscenery Support

Postby PINTO » Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:25 pm

TribalBob wrote in Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:51 pm:I have never had a multiplayer experience in FlightGear and it is certainly not for a lack of trying.


Join the FG discord and you'll quickly remedy that.

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=31449

https://discord.gg/cPTy5WH
Actively developing the MiG-21bis (link to repo) (link to thread)

http://opredflag.com is an active flightgear dogfighting community (using a system that isn’t bombable)
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Re: Request: User-Friendly Photoscenery Support

Postby TribalBob » Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:34 pm

It may be the only you've seen - but it's definitely not the only one that's been requested for that timeframe either, sorry.

I didn't say it's the ONLY one being requested, I said it is the only one I have SEEN requested for more than 11 years, meaning there may be others but this one is definitely a pretty big fan favorite because I see it consistently asked for for more than 11 years now. there may be others being requested for as long, but clearly apparently not being requested as often as photoscenery because I can pull up all sorts of threads on it right now dating back to 2006. I can't say that for any other feature I've seen requested over the past 12 years or so. Again, not saying those threads don't exist but from my personal observation i've seen a HELL of a lot more threads asking about photoscenery than any other single feature.

Right... like it historically has reliably happened. In reality, mindless optimism that 'the community' of volunteers will take care of issues gets you only so far... Let's say I wouldn't bet on it, it has never really worked out so far.

You know what, even if they don't, so what...? People are either going to create more servers or they will go away until we reach an equilibrium. Either way, we'd end up with a larger, more active community.

Admittedly I don't get people like you - you're using (literally) thousands of hours of my work for which I requested nothing in return - and yet you feel entirely free to call me 'prick' and 'jerk' while I maintain politeness - even if I had intentionally 'given you attitude' by all measure you'd still owe me some thanks for letting you use my stuff and could cut me some slack, rather than go ballistic on the first perceived insult.

I do appreciate your work. Just because i think you've been rude, doesn't negate that I appreciate your work, the two are not related. If someone builds me a house and then slaps me in the face, I appreciate that you've built me a house but you're still a prick for having slapped me in the face and I'm going to let you know as much. just because you've done something nice for me doesn't give you the authority to be rude to me. I am just as valid of a human being as you are. I have contributed things to people but I don't go around acting like that gives me the right to treat them with disrespect.


You seem to believe that just because there's no activity where you're looking there is no activity rather than to look where the activity is, and at the end you seem to hope that people will respond positively to you and your requests after your show of developer-insulting.

I'm not insulting a developer, I'm insulting someone who's first interaction with me was one of rudeness and that person just so happens to be a developer.

Try politeness and respect instead - and people will respond better to you.

You would do well to heed your own advice.
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Re: Request: User-Friendly Photoscenery Support

Postby TribalBob » Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:41 pm

PINTO wrote in Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:25 pm:
TribalBob wrote in Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:51 pm:I have never had a multiplayer experience in FlightGear and it is certainly not for a lack of trying.


Join the FG discord and you'll quickly remedy that.

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=31449

https://discord.gg/cPTy5WH


Thanks m8! Will give this a try.
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Re: Request: User-Friendly Photoscenery Support

Postby Thorsten » Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:01 pm

You would do well to heed your own advice.


The obvious difference being that I don't really want anything from anyone here (but rather usually my help and knowledge is wanted and - as the code - freely given) and I haven't repeatedly used rude words in this conversation.

Anyway - let's finish this on a constructive note - why don't you sleep it over, re-read it tomorrow and see whether you've really been wronged and whether you can perhaps find an apology in you then? Because it doesn't lead anywhere right now.
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Re: Request: User-Friendly Photoscenery Support

Postby TribalBob » Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:29 pm

Thorsten wrote in Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:01 pm:
You would do well to heed your own advice.


The obvious difference being that I don't really want anything from anyone here (but rather usually my help and knowledge is wanted and - as the code - freely given) and I haven't repeatedly used rude words in this conversation.

Anyway - let's finish this on a constructive note - why don't you sleep it over, re-read it tomorrow and see whether you've really been wronged and whether you can perhaps find an apology in you then? Because it doesn't lead anywhere right now.


I'm NOT going to apologize for being rude to someone who was rude to me, don't be ridiculous. I don't care what you've contributed to me or the community, it doesn't give you the right to go around disrespecting me or anyone else.

I served in the US Navy but I don't go around demanding that everyone respect me while I treat them with unwarranted disrespect on our first interaction.

You want me to thank you for your contribution? You want me to respect you...? Try treating others with gratitude and respect first. Don't expect it just because you've done something for yourself that you then decided to share with the community. I don't go around asking for gratitude because I decided to join the military. I don't go around asking for respect just because I feel that I've done something to deserve it. I don't do the things I do so i can go around demanding appreciation and respect from people while i treat them with rudeness and disrespect.

I want respect, so i treat others with respect until they lose it which you chose to do by giving me a rude "code it yourself" response on your VERY FIRST interaction with me.
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Re: Request: User-Friendly Photoscenery Support

Postby Thorsten » Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:50 pm

:D
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Re: Request: User-Friendly Photoscenery Support

Postby wkitty42 » Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:16 pm

TribalBob wrote in Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:03 pm:
You're probably not aware of that, but the majority of active developers rarely to never visit the forum - mostly to avoid unpleasant tone of users who don't get what they want.

Since I'm pretty sure this is an "under-your-breath" jab at me,

it is not... most of the currently active developers specifically stay away from the forums for various reasons... if you do not believe Thorsten or myself, perhaps you would care to ask them on the developer's mailing list... see the "Mailing Lists" link at the top of every page in these forums ;)
Last edited by wkitty42 on Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Request: User-Friendly Photoscenery Support

Postby wkitty42 » Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:21 pm

TribalBob wrote in Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:03 pm:And server bandwidth is never an acceptable excuse to hold back development

no one said it was... again, plain facts were stated... every single MP server is personally owned and operated by its admin... they operate them on whatever connections they feel like... any of them is free to turn off their MP server at any time...

TribalBob wrote in Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:03 pm:Just like any other user-supported community if the need for more servers/bandwidth arises, there will ALWAYS be volunteers ready to throw up a new server.

if that's the case, where are they? one would think there would be 50 or more MP servers using your POV... it simply is not true... heck, even the main tracker server has problems from time to time which may take a week or more to be discovered and remedied... some operators do have real life jobs that take them away from their volunteer server admin work for days or weeks at the time...
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"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: Request: User-Friendly Photoscenery Support

Postby abassign » Fri Aug 31, 2018 10:30 pm

TribalBob wrote in Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:29 pm:I want respect, so i treat others with respect until they lose it which you chose to do by giving me a rude "code it yourself" ...


@TribalBob
hello, this forum, in the development part, is now the Thorsten (called the "Painter") private property and some of his affectionate squire. As you may have noticed the number of interventions in recent months are falling considerably, this because for every new idea, the painter (so named by his squire named Mr. wkitty42 some time ago) ... he says that it is not possible to do it, that he does not agree and you must not do! One must do only what the painter says to do, any other idea is rejected. It seems that the day of the painter has gone only entirely to respond, always saying NIET! With this way of doing it is pushing away all those who want to do something new. So I suggest you open a server on Discord to deepen this very interesting topic. Many pilots want to do VFR flight (Whoever pilots our G91-R1B can do it only in VFR as it is a plane that flew between 3000-20000 ft). So I would also like to see Italy in a photo-realistic format as I can do from YEARS with X-Plane. This is now a forum almost completely useless, until the "painter" will respond to all the things that are written, as his answers have virtually no value, do not allow to give useful information, they can allow to build the base of a discussion that may develop something new over time.

Now I wait for the painter to respond to my post with some of his utterance always vulgar and full of hatred :lol:

The OpenSceneGraph is the graphic engine, and this engine can implement photorealistic functionality. Unfortunately, the "Painter" has too messed up on the canvas and his dull colors have covered the capabilities of OSG. Therefore, often certain things can not be done because the additions of the "Painter" are not compatible. The best thing I think is to work using only the OSG engine without introducing objects that OSG does not handle. At this point the thing should be easy enough to accomplish.
If you now hear the pains :shock: of the painter and his squires ... dear friend do not worry! let this place sat and open a server on Discord that can handle this topic.

https://discordapp.com/channels/269552151997448197/269552151997448197
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