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Ground services !

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Ground services !

Postby Triyan » Tue Oct 18, 2016 3:53 pm

Can gsx be added to flightgear?
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Re: Ground services !

Postby D-ECHO » Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:00 pm

What is gsx? :D
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Re: Ground services !

Postby CaptB » Tue Oct 18, 2016 5:59 pm

Not possible.
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Re: Ground services !

Postby pommesschranke » Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:52 pm

CaptB wrote in Tue Oct 18, 2016 5:59 pm:Not possible.


why do you think so ?
We have pushback, we have the walker, we have AI-Jetways...
Sure it is possible if someone invests a lot of time or money.

gsx:
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Re: Ground services !

Postby Jet86 » Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:51 pm

OP asked if GSX can be added to FlightGear. GSX is a specific product built for a specific other simulator, and therefore cannot be added to FlightGear.

Are you instead meaning to ask whether simulation of ground services could be added to FlightGear? Because that is not the same question.
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Re: Ground services !

Postby Alant » Wed Oct 19, 2016 12:20 am

GSX is specifically for Microsoft Flightsim, so is not compatible with other flight sims.

However Flightgear already has most of the infrastructure for such an add-on. All that is needed is someone, or some group, to join up the dots. The big advantage is that Flightgear, unlike MS Flight Sim, is open source.

The challenge is clear. The OP has identified that there is a need. Who will take it up?

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Re: Ground services !

Postby Triyan » Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:12 am

Jet86 wrote in Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:51 pm:OP asked if GSX can be added to FlightGear. GSX is a specific product built for a specific other simulator, and therefore cannot be added to FlightGear.

Are you instead meaning to ask whether simulation of ground services could be added to FlightGear? Because that is not the same question.


Yes that what I meant!
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Re: Ground services !

Postby jsb » Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:18 pm

Do you think of MP (multiplay) ground service or just local ("single player")? I thought about MP some time ago, would be really cool but it needs a new server to host/control/AI all kind of gnd vehicles or maybe even a complete overhaul of the network and MP code which is quite a "hack".
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Re: Ground services !

Postby flycanarias » Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:55 pm

Well, I'd assume it's easier, and fully enough to have single player Ground services. Some aircraft already have them, but maybe it's possible to have general ones. Meaning that, just like the jetway feature, an aircraft needs to be equipped for GS, so that there are programmed doors, where the GS-vehicles know to connect. That's the aircraft side...
The airport infrastructure could be improved when having programmed roads, where GSvehicles can drive on. So ground service vehicles could use some kind of programmed taxiways, and connect to the aircraft.
What do you think??
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Re: Ground services !

Postby Catalanoic » Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:13 pm

"just like the jetway feature" Nice idea, look that file in your fgdata/Nasal/jetways/jetways.nas
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Re: Ground services !

Postby Johan G » Wed Jan 25, 2017 5:42 pm

Catalanoic wrote in Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:13 pm:Nice idea [...]

Indeed :)
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Re: Ground services !

Postby www2 » Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:55 pm

in the new version of apt.dat 1100 file format there is a option for Ground ground services.
Here is the list for supported vehicles:
Code: Select all
Baggage Loader
Baggage Train
Crew Car
Crew Ferrari
Crew Limo
Fuel truck (sub cat: Jets, Livers, Props)
Catering Truck
Ground Power
Pushback
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Re: Ground services !

Postby flycanarias » Thu Jan 26, 2017 1:13 pm

Well, now it's getting interesting...
Can you tell us how they are operated?
Do they "just appear", or do they have driving capabilities?
Are they controlled by the user, who "drives" them, like the existing pushback, or is it automated, so you just activate them and it's done?
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Re: Ground services !

Postby www2 » Thu Jan 26, 2017 1:47 pm

What i remember from my memories from fs weekend 2016 and what i have seen in the WED beta is that ground services is a a IA system.
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Re: Ground services !

Postby ThomasS » Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:14 pm

Johan G wrote in Wed Jan 25, 2017 5:42 pm:
Catalanoic wrote in Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:13 pm:Nice idea [...]

Indeed :)


Just to get the correct impression: Are your comments meant ironically due to the complexity of jetways.nas?

I spent some time during the last weeks for checking opportunities for building ground services. There are already existing ground service components in FG providing Pushback, FollowMe, Ramp Marshall and Jetways (maybe even more). Integrating these with the existing AI system appears straightforward. Routes for driving vehicles on the apron could be derived from groundnet.xml.

I didn't succeed in understanding the existing AI system with its moving vehicles from waypoint to waypoint, neither by checking the code nor by building a sample scenario. The Nasal approach of tanker.nas however looks more comprehensive. Reading groundnet.xml from Nasal apparently isn't possible yet without doing explicit XML parsing. Though the airportinfo function in nasal provides parking and taxiway information, these might be derived from different sources than groundnet.xml.
Having the groundnet.xml information available in Nasal in combination with the logic in tanker.nas might provide a simple way for having vehicles moving on the apron.

But thinking further reveals more challenges:

1) The existing ground service components are based on different concepts. (the FollowMe vehicle eg. is a pseudo aircraft if I understand that correct). Integrating these different concepts might lead to the loss of some features/ideas/concepts or to a competition of concepts (often resulting in endless discussions).

2) Vehicles driving exactly on the groundnet will collide with others. The routes could be modified a few meters beside the route. But a pushback car for example needs some special route for reaching the front of an aircraft without driving through a building. All this might lead to complex geometry calculations.

Sounds daunting to me. However, I think I'll continue my current efforts reading groundnet.xml manually and moving vehicles on that routes.

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