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FG ATC school

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FG ATC school

Postby oscar6662 » Fri Jul 01, 2016 2:28 pm

Hello everybody this is oscar6662 and I have a proposal that is: Why not creating an ATC school for FG???
The idea came from a bit ago when I was goign in mumble from ATC to ATC asking for a radio check and as an asnwer I got:
Radio check is accepted, Radio check is OK, Radio check approved, WHY DO YOU WANT A RADIO CHECK I HERE YOU!!!(Caps intended)
So I thought may be it would be nice to share some of my little knowledge about ATC.

This is an ambicious project but I am not going to do it alone.
Todo bien todo correcto? Y yo que me alegro!!!
#keepKSFO

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Re: FG ATC school

Postby D-ECHO » Fri Jul 01, 2016 3:09 pm

I can also share my ATC knowledge if I find time :D
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Re: FG ATC school

Postby oscar6662 » Fri Jul 01, 2016 3:11 pm

Thats awesone 2 teachers!
Todo bien todo correcto? Y yo que me alegro!!!
#keepKSFO

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Re: FG ATC school

Postby OE-PH1 » Fri Jul 01, 2016 6:49 pm

As I am flying on VATSIM regularly, I can offer some knowledge about proper pilot/ATC communication from a pilot's view, if needed.
I am a member of the A330 dev team
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Re: FG ATC school

Postby oscar6662 » Fri Jul 01, 2016 7:54 pm

thats great but we need students, school without students hahahah!
Todo bien todo correcto? Y yo que me alegro!!!
#keepKSFO

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Re: FG ATC school

Postby CaptB » Sat Jul 02, 2016 11:37 am

An idea such as this was tested some time ago, there were no intersted people.
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Re: FG ATC school

Postby mickybadia » Sun Jul 03, 2016 9:43 am

Indeed, open group sessions easily fail to meet high expectations given the general lack of attendance. But the demand to learn and wish to teach seriously is still heard often enough to believe that planned/agreed sessions could be a win-win.
For that reason, I introduced the teacher-student tutorial connection mode in ATC-pie, so I am very happy to mention it here again, should it serve anybody with that purpose.
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Re: FG ATC school

Postby oscar6662 » Sun Jul 03, 2016 10:05 am

Thank you very much. yeah my and ACI suposed to teach, we learn from each other pretty different because he is ATC in USA and I am in europe but we both are interested students and I told ACI we should make an swetbox sesion!(the teacher student in ATC pie). We are trying to use that feature but he needs first to install the software and it's pretty hard for a pretty silly windows user(count me in).
Todo bien todo correcto? Y yo que me alegro!!!
#keepKSFO

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Re: FG ATC school

Postby Hooray » Sun Jul 03, 2016 11:17 am

requiring people to literally teach these things is going to become a bottleneck quickly - what you could do instead is teaming up with the OpenRadar/ATCPie folks to implement support for integrated Tutorials - e.g. as per the FlightGear tutorial system (fully scriptable) so that "lessons" can be created by people who understand basic ATC concepts, which could be completed by novice users.

If the ATCPie/OpenRadar folks should not have enough time to help implement something like that, this could also be done using FlightGear's built-in Tutorial system: http://wiki.flightgear.org/Tutorials

Besides, note that FlightGear's very first ATC support was using built-in means, such as the Map dialog:

http://wiki.flightgear.org/ATC-aircraft
Image

http://wiki.flightgear.org/ATC-FS
Image

Meanwhile, it would be possible to recreate a virtual ATC environment solely in fgdata space, e.g. by using Nasal and Canvas - in fact, you can even create full-screen Canvas applications for FlightGear: http://wiki.flightgear.org/Howto:Creati ... plications

Besides, a few people (aircraft developers) are actually working on a full Nasal/Canvas based RADAR framework, which is intended to be sufficiently generic to be reusable for these purposes, including even ATC stations on AWACS-like aircraft: http://wiki.flightgear.org/Canvas_Radar

Image

In summary, there are a number of ways to provide "tutorials" using OpenRadar, ATC-Pie or even just Nasal/Canvas in FlightGear.
I definitely, would not make this a 1:1 setup, because at that point, people would be the bottleneck - whereas creating interactive lessons and tutorials scales, even beyond people's involvement in FlightGear (think years from now).

For example, it would only take ~50 lines of code added to the tutorial system to allow Canvas maps to be displayed as part of tutorials - in fact, we once implemented everything needed to display tutorial targets using a Canvas map: http://wiki.flightgear.org/Canvas_MapSt ... _Layer_TUT
Please don't send support requests by PM, instead post your questions on the forum so that all users can contribute and benefit
Thanks & all the best,
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Re: FG ATC school

Postby mcdonar » Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:47 am

Although of a larger scope than this topic, I am interested in helping to run a project to develop a pilot and ATC training application to enable both self-study and mentored lessons/courses.
As a complete newbie to FG and ATC-pie, it looks initially as though they could provide a core of ATC training. I already have some ideas on how the equivalent for pilots could be developed.
I see that providing comprehensive training to both ATC and pilots needs an integrated approach to ensure that each understands the challenges of the other.
I have professional experience of working on complex IT projects and, as a retiree, time to give to these activities.
Any ideas on how we could get things moving on these fronts?
Regards, Richard
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Re: FG ATC school

Postby oscar6662 » Tue Aug 02, 2016 11:42 am

"Although of a larger scope than this topic, I am interested in helping to run a project to develop a pilot and ATC training application to enable both self-study and mentored lessons/courses."

That's allready made by Micky and it works perfectly, but as sayd there are students willing to learn missing.
Todo bien todo correcto? Y yo que me alegro!!!
#keepKSFO

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Re: FG ATC school

Postby mcdonar » Tue Aug 02, 2016 1:29 pm

Hi Oscar,
What is it that Micky has already made? Give me at least a hint :wink: !
Regards, Richard
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Re: FG ATC school

Postby oscar6662 » Tue Aug 02, 2016 2:33 pm

If you come from vatsim sweatbox is the word you need. If not: its a student teacher coperative game /simulation so it consists that the tecaher controla the aircraft as many as he can and the student verbally controls them.
Todo bien todo correcto? Y yo que me alegro!!!
#keepKSFO

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Re: FG ATC school

Postby mcdonar » Tue Aug 02, 2016 3:04 pm

Oscar,
I feel that you haven't understood the scope of what I am suggesting.
I am suggesting a comprehensive pilot and ATC college, teaching from flight ground school and introduction to ATC through to developing mentoring skills.
I am quite sure that ATC-pie would contribute a significant element of the total.
Cheers, Richard
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Re: FG ATC school

Postby mickybadia » Tue Aug 02, 2016 3:49 pm

mcdonar wrote in Tue Aug 02, 2016 3:04 pm:I am suggesting a comprehensive pilot and ATC college, teaching from flight ground school and introduction to ATC through to developing mentoring skills.

I am positive I have heard that before. I do not know the status of all those projects but some worked to reproduce this kind of platform, à la VATSIM, and others have proposed sessions with comparable objectives. I think that most of the time things do not turn out because the number of people wishing for serious business is not high enough in the FG world. My guess is that if you are aiming at serious training, you should really think small to start.

mcdonar wrote in Tue Aug 02, 2016 3:04 pm:I am quite sure that ATC-pie would contribute a significant element of the total.

At the moment the tutoring mode is quite minimal in the sense that everything is mostly manual, not much automation being available to the teacher. But I would consider any demand coming out of a more extensive use of it.
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