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Realistic Textures

Postby Flightgearex » Sun Mar 30, 2014 8:13 pm

I have now also started to texturing (see: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=22400 ), but as already mentioned: the brake bands are visible almost only used at the beginning of runways and at the end of runways. That would be no problem, only the look, the arrangement of textures for runways as follows:
pa_stopway
pa_threshold
pa_L / R / C <- here they should start braking strips
Numbers 1,2,3 ...
pa_tz_three
pa_rest -> here pa_centerline should be used
pa_tz_two_a
pa_rest -> here pa_centerline should be used
pa_tz_two_b
pa_rest -> here pa_centerline should be used
pa_tz_one_a <- here the braking strip should end
pa_rest
pa_tz_one_b
pa_rest
pa_rest
...

And as my question is how do I change it which is used pa_centerline at the locations shown?
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Re: Realistic Textures

Postby psadro_gm » Sun Mar 30, 2014 10:12 pm

Hello flightgearex,

Yeah - that's a dealbreaker. The textures are all puzzle pieces with various stretching / compressing, and it is very non-optimal for modern cpus.

You obviously have some good texturing skills. Would you like to help out working on the new texturing scheme for airports?
Instead of the 'puzzle pieces' that we have now, I plan on layering the airport markings on top of the pavement.

i4dnf plans on adding dirtying overlays, so the skid marks can be placed via shader.

Here's a screenshot of where it stands today:

Image

I can send you a very crappy image (I'm no artist) for the line features so far. Let me know.

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Re: Realistic Textures

Postby psadro_gm » Sun Mar 30, 2014 10:22 pm

here's a link to my current runway markings. It's an atlas so all markings can be placed with just the one draw call. BUT : I will be editing how the atlas is used. I want to add begin / end sections for some of the marks, so we don't have such straight beginnings / ends.

taxiway lines
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/29968727/lf_test.png

runway lines
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/29968727/rwy_test2.png
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Re: Realistic Textures

Postby Flightgearex » Mon Mar 31, 2014 6:00 am

and where an I edit it ?? In atlas ?? If yes, where can I download it ? :)
I simpy want it that that the pa_centerline-texture be used not the 3 pa_rest
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Re: Realistic Textures

Postby gluon » Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:40 am

No, it has nothing to do with the software Atlas. He is referring to a rendering technique with the same name.

@psandro_gm: Maybe you could explain this a bit. Or do you have some links to websites that explain it. Certainly would help :)
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Re: Realistic Textures

Postby psadro_gm » Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:46 pm

here's a whitepaper from nvidia - about ten years old.

http://http.download.nvidia.com/develop ... epaper.pdf

I will be submitting the twp PNG files to fgdata the weekend, I hop. Then you can edit there. But, there won't be scenery using it for a while. If you want, I could build some custom scenery with an airport using the texture atlas, so you can work with it.
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Re: Realistic Textures

Postby Flightgearex » Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:19 pm

I want simply change the formation of the textures :D I mean at this 3 points where pa_centerline should be used ;) Ther must be an xml-file which regulates this
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Re: Realistic Textures

Postby psadro_gm » Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:03 am

no, each triangle for the runway is set to use a particular texture when the airport is generated with genapt850. There is nothing you can do to move these textures, other than changing the texture currently assigned to each section.


Here is a like to the code if you are interested: https://www.gitorious.org/fg/terragear/ ... n.cxx#L582

See the function Runway::gen_rwy()
The runway is broken into rectangles, and each rectangle is given it's own texture (material).

The issues with this approach we are currently fixing are:

1) The number of threshold bars varies with runway width - currently, we have it hardcoded
2) textures are stretched - because threshold bars are fixed length, if the runway width varies, the texture needs to be stretched / compressed to fit.
3) there is no way to place taxiway lines or tiremarks onto the runway and have consistent bumpmapping with the underlying pavement ( as each section has it's own texture coordinates AND each section may be stretched differently )

All of this is being worked on now. There is very little benefit to trying to fix the current implementation, as it will be replaced soon. That is why I was asking if you were interested in contributing to the artwork for the new implementation, as it may speed it along...
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Re: Realistic Textures

Postby Thorsten » Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:34 am

3) there is no way to place taxiway lines or tiremarks onto the runway and have consistent bumpmapping with the underlying pavement ( as each section has it's own texture coordinates AND each section may be stretched differently )


We can do procedural bumpmapping based on pixel position in tile coordinates - that never needs to know the texture coordinate so the mapping or stretching simply doesn't matter (we do this for the terrain which has different texture-to-size mappings, but overlay and bump noise at fixed true scales). It's not like runways would have a very intricate bump structure which requires a bumpmap texture, it's essentially noise and we can model that by a function.

Talk to your local rendering amateur now and then :-)
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Re: Realistic Textures

Postby psadro_gm » Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:05 pm

I suppose that's correct for the bumps, but not the dirty texturing. We'll need to know the dimensions of the runways for that. The new features aren't just for the 3 points notes above, but also for performance. Without airport signs, and windsocks, LMML has gone from 54 drawables to 28 - close to half. Now, compared to the full scenery, that's not even a drop in the bucket, but it is giving terragear the tools to be able to generalize all of the terrain into fewer draws. Pixel shaders are not my strength, but I have been consulting with a shader developer who has been feeding me with what he needs.

I believe this is also one of your goals, Thorsten, with procedural texturing - have as few landclasses as possible, and let the landclass shaders fill in the details. It is the same with airports - we will only have the underlying pavements, and markings will mostly be masks on where to draw lines. line color, line end capping, dirty flags and bump mapping would all be handled via shader.

By the way - I haven't forgotten the curvature values for the terrain. I'm using airports to develop vertex attribute passing from terragear to simgear, because genairports is a bit simpler than tgconstruct, code wise. Once airports can generate vertex attributes, I will add to tgconstruct as well, and build a few tiles with curvature values.
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Re: Realistic Textures

Postby Thorsten » Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:28 pm

I suppose that's correct for the bumps, but not the dirty texturing. We'll need to know the dimensions of the runways for that. The new features aren't just for the 3 points notes above, but also for performance


Sorry - I didn't mean to say you should not go for the new features. I just thought the information that we can draw structures in real coordinates just as well as in texture coordinates would be sufficiently interesting.

But sure - there are plenty of other reasons.

By the way - I haven't forgotten the curvature values for the terrain.


Much appreciated. I've been hitting a snag with steepest descent identifying today - somehow simply stretching patterns around that direction does not work as it should... But I'm not beaten yet.
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Re: Realistic Textures

Postby Flightgearex » Sat May 03, 2014 1:50 pm

If this is so complicated I will forget it ;)
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