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Dogfights

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Re: Dogfights

Postby xiii » Mon May 25, 2009 7:56 pm

redneck wrote: Just to make sure I don't go over the data limit by cramming that topic full of kills

You can keep only those off wich you are proud, if any.
I saw your first post there, but I wasn't sure if it was supposed to be something like you saw it was, since the reticle wasn't in front of the target, making it highly unlikely that if you had guns that you would have even gotten a hit

I was happy to succeed in getting this screen shot, I was only aiming on that picture. No doubt you can do the same 10 time a day. Anyway, you are welcome and I'm sure that we could have fun together.
EDIT - By the way, what's your usual callsign, so I can flee we I saw you on MP ? - EDIT
not to mention the fact that you were also stalling at the time the screenshot was taken.

This is your guess. AoA indicator shows 9 units, and Closure Rate (the scale in the HUD) shows 250 KTS. Sorry about that.
What about planes that don't have a targetting reticle or any sort of nose indicator, like the F-16. It now has guns, which is awesome, but would it be enough to have the target roughly centered in the HUD?

Mhhh, that's a difficult problem. Those plane shouldn't be flown with a HUD, excepted maybe for the time you learn how to keep level flight. Training with hit proof was not possible at that time but by firing real bullets on a towed flag. Boys, I didn't say a towed glider !!!

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Re: Dogfights

Postby redneck » Mon May 25, 2009 10:12 pm

xiii wrote:What about planes that don't have a targetting reticle or any sort of nose indicator, like the F-16. It now has guns, which is awesome, but would it be enough to have the target roughly centered in the HUD?
Mhhh, that's a difficult problem. Those plane shouldn't be flown with a HUD, excepted maybe for the time you learn how to keep level flight.

The F-16 has a HUD, but no nose indicator or targetting reticle. The default HUD for the F-16 was what I was refferring to.
Oh, and my callsign is redneck.
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Re: Dogfights

Postby redneck » Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:13 pm

Would it be possible to have a padlock view, so that I can keep another plane in my view for dogfighting and formations? What about being able to select which plane I want to view or being able to cycle through a list?
Thanks.
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Re: Dogfights

Postby NicQ » Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:49 pm

redneck wrote:Would it be possible to have a padlock view, so that I can keep another plane in my view for dogfighting and formations? What about being able to select which plane I want to view or being able to cycle through a list?
Thanks.


Resounding no on the two options as far as I'm concerned : they both defeat the purpose of trying to model dogfights, and make it like more arcady flight sims out there.

Padlocking takes away all the difficulty in maintaining visual contact, which is the big problem of dogfighting when coupled to real ACMs.
Target lists cued in from the radar or even worse, all planes in sim, are the bane of air combat simulations, bringing them down to the level of arcady games :)
It's no fun when to get a target you can cheat with your views (you already have model view that can serve that purpose if you want to "cheat") as I admit I did for a long time in both Falcon 4.0 and F/A-18 Korea.

I really started enjoying both those games/sims (they really straddle the border, especially on the higher realism settings) when I stopped using the "cheats" permitted by padlocking and target views.

With mpmap already permitting unfair advantages, I'm not in favour of features that defeat the whole purpose of realistic dogfights and air combat simulation/modelling.

Why develop realistic features for MP if they can be easily defeated by standard camera features ?

My 2 Can cents worth of opinion,
Cheers !
Nic
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Re: Dogfights

Postby redneck » Sat Jun 13, 2009 3:05 pm

Okay. I just thought it would be nice for some of us who don't have head-tracking hardware. Well, that's not exactly the same thing either, and I kinda thought I'd get that sort of response. I held off posting that question for a while for that reason, but I later figured "screw it" and posted anyway. I hope to look into head-tracking hardware sometime; not sure when it will be in my budget range, or even one of those weird hat diys like derek9g. I'll just be happy with having a radar display on most of the military planes until then.
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Re: Dogfights

Postby NicQ » Sat Jun 13, 2009 3:14 pm

redneck wrote:Okay. I just thought it would be nice for some of us who don't have head-tracking hardware. Well, that's not exactly the same thing either, and I kinda thought I'd get that sort of response. I held off posting that question for a while for that reason, but I later figured "screw it" and posted anyway. I hope to look into head-tracking hardware sometime; not sure when it will be in my budget range, or even one of those weird hat diys like derek9g. I'll just be happy with having a radar display on most of the military planes until then.


Red, as I said, just my opinion on the topic : nothing absolute or binding about it :)
Don't refrain from posting for such reasons as the discussion that can result from "controversial" topics can benefit all.
Plus, again, my opinion, tastes and wishes are NOT more important than yours : we're a community of widely ranging interests, all revolving around flying for the most part, and within the military aviation enthusiasts, that variety and disparity still holds :)

I also don't have headtracking setup for lack of sufficient display surface : don't see the point of using it on my laptop screen for flying atm.
I basically use my mouse for turning my head (and trimming with the mouse wheel in all mouse view modes)

Btw, all you need is a small flashlight/laser pen tied to your head, an integrated webcam on a laptop or a peripheral USB cam, find the FGFS headtracking patches, and voila :)
No expensive or proprietary hw needed.

Cheers, check your six !
Nic
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Re: Dogfights

Postby redneck » Sat Jun 13, 2009 3:24 pm

NicQ wrote:Btw, all you need is a small flashlight/laser pen tied to your head, an integrated webcam on a laptop or a peripheral USB cam, find the FGFS headtracking patches, and voila
No expensive or proprietary hw needed.

Wow, I had no idea it was that easy! The only issue I have with using the mouse to look is when I really need to look in another direction, it's usually when I'm in a banked turn and the view never recenters properly. The only other way I saw around this was to look with an exterior view, but then the model of my plane would get in the way. Thanks, I have everything I need, except for that patch. As long as I don't need the CVS version or access to the source code I should be able to get it working. I wouldn't mind using it on a laptop, since I'll be able to control my view at all times :)
I don't want to mess with that right now though, since there should be an mp event (TNCM fly-in) coming up in a couple of hours, and I'd rather not be messing with code, or having problems with it at the time of the event. It's been decided already that I will be leading it, and the last time that happened, and I missed it, the event went into total chaos from what I heard.
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Re: Dogfights

Postby redneck » Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:20 pm

Oh, according to this:
http://www.flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=637
I have to actually compile FG and have access to the source code in order to use the patch. I don't quite trust my computer skills to do that yet :oops:
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Re: Dogfights

Postby xiii » Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:38 pm

redneck wrote: The only issue I have with using the mouse to look is when I really need to look in another direction, it's usually when I'm in a banked turn and the view never recenters properly.


Hi redneck,

There is the Nasal function view.resetView() for this particular recentering problem. I did bind one of my joystick buttons to this function.
Code: Select all
 <button n="4">
  <desc>Reset View</desc>
  <binding>
   <command>nasal</command>
   <script>view.resetView()</script>
  </binding>
 </button>


I also use one of my joystick chinese hats to pan the view in the four direction, that's all.
You can also bind a keyboard key to this func (if no joystick).
....And I all agree with NicQ :-)

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Re: Dogfights

Postby redneck » Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:56 pm

Thanks. I'll see about adding that code somewhere, either a keyboard binding or a joystick binding. Looks like I may finally have a use for button 3 on my joystick :) That should correct the issue of recentering the view during a bank and then looking to the side once I'm completely leveled, right?
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Re: Dogfights

Postby xiii » Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:18 am

Exactly, and the recenter move is very fast.
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Re: Dogfights

Postby redneck » Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:55 pm

I just tried it and it works exactly like you said it would. Thanks! I think what I really want is too be able to look up using a button on the joystick or keyboard kinda like how I can look in different directions using shift+arrow key, but also have that button recenter the view once released (probably an edit added to the lines of code you gave me for my joystick config file).
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Re: Dogfights

Postby flyer5 » Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:37 pm

I have a question: is it possible to make a padlock view at all? If so, how can it be done? I am not a nasal expert at all. I need to know b/c I plan to be implementing TARPS into E3's F-14. I need to be able to lock onto a certain object in TARPS view, but I don't know how to do it.
Also, how in the world can I make an AI aircraft that will be your wingman without being stuck to you as in the wingman demo?
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Re: Dogfights

Postby NicQ » Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:10 pm

flyer5 wrote:I have a question: is it possible to make a padlock view at all? If so, how can it be done? I am not a nasal expert at all. I need to know b/c I plan to be implementing TARPS into E3's F-14. I need to be able to lock onto a certain object in TARPS view, but I don't know how to do it.
Also, how in the world can I make an AI aircraft that will be your wingman without being stuck to you as in the wingman demo?


Of course it's possible. Generally, not a good idea, and xiii, the F-14 maintainer seems to agree :)
Most important, it has no relationship to modelling TARPS usage which was driven by the RIO's MFD and radar display : just a photo recon pod.
Absolutely no need for padlocking there, quite the contrary as aiming it to take pictures by moving your head around, well, no need for TARPS then : just use mouse view, X/shift-x to change FOV and F3 to take a screenshot.
If it ain't broke, break it. How else are you going to figure out how it works ?
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Re: Dogfights

Postby flyer5 » Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:23 pm

NicQ wrote:
flyer5 wrote:I have a question: is it possible to make a padlock view at all? If so, how can it be done? I am not a nasal expert at all. I need to know b/c I plan to be implementing TARPS into E3's F-14. I need to be able to lock onto a certain object in TARPS view, but I don't know how to do it.
Also, how in the world can I make an AI aircraft that will be your wingman without being stuck to you as in the wingman demo?


Of course it's possible. Generally, not a good idea, and xiii, the F-14 maintainer seems to agree :)
Most important, it has no relationship to modelling TARPS usage which was driven by the RIO's MFD and radar display : just a photo recon pod.
Absolutely no need for padlocking there, quite the contrary as aiming it to take pictures by moving your head around, well, no need for TARPS then : just use mouse view, X/shift-x to change FOV and F3 to take a screenshot.


I know that workaround. But what if I wanted to keep realtime track of tank movement as I go to bomb it?
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