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Dogfights

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Re: Dogfights

Postby bnex10 » Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:18 pm

During summer I could have a shot on coding that. You will have to wait until late May after school finishes for me.
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Re: Dogfights

Postby 2011futuremarine » Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:20 pm

That would be great if you could :D
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Re: Dogfights

Postby Christopher2222 » Mon May 04, 2009 3:47 am

Sounds interesting. You could call it the Flightgear combat version or even Flightgear 2:The next revolution. Even MS Flight simulator won't go there. The multiplayer virtual world would then have just gotten a little more dangerous. You'd get rogue pilots shooting down 747's and other hapless leisure flyers. There would have to be a way to fix that, like a combat mode on/off switch feature. So if the 747 pilot doesn't feel like being shot out of the sky, he can turn off combat mode. Sure other planes could shoot at him but they wouldn't have any effects. I'm no programmer nor do I have the time but it would sure make a great flight sim into an awesome one. I'm sure one day Flightgear will be there. So that's for another day, today I gotta get back to modelling my first plane so I've finally found a detailed 3 plan blueprint of my jet, just gotta figure out how blender or AC3D works then find some aerodynamic data for it and model it into an FDM.
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Re: Dogfights

Postby bnex10 » Mon May 04, 2009 3:29 pm

Christopher2222 wrote:Sounds interesting. You could call it the Flightgear combat version or even Flightgear 2:The next revolution. Even MS Flight simulator won't go there. The multiplayer virtual world would then have just gotten a little more dangerous. You'd get rogue pilots shooting down 747's and other hapless leisure flyers. There would have to be a way to fix that, like a combat mode on/off switch feature. So if the 747 pilot doesn't feel like being shot out of the sky, he can turn off combat mode. Sure other planes could shoot at him but they wouldn't have any effects. I'm no programmer nor do I have the time but it would sure make a great flight sim into an awesome one. I'm sure one day Flightgear will be there. So that's for another day, today I gotta get back to modelling my first plane so I've finally found a detailed 3 plan blueprint of my jet, just gotta figure out how blender or AC3D works then find some aerodynamic data for it and model it into an FDM.


Lol, that would be hilarious if a 737 was being swarmed by a bunch of F-22's trying to shoot it down. :D
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Re: Dogfights

Postby Gijs » Mon May 04, 2009 3:30 pm

Christopher2222 wrote:So if the 747 pilot doesn't feel like being shot out of the sky, he can turn off combat mode.
Better would be to have it off by default.
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Re: Dogfights

Postby redneck » Mon May 04, 2009 3:47 pm

True, but at least have a toggle so the civilian planes can be destroyed. That way, people can volunteer to be, say a transport or something important, which is totally defenseless, and must be protected by one team.
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Re: Dogfights

Postby HHS » Mon May 04, 2009 5:20 pm

I didn't know we are a war sim! :shock:

Hey guys- FGFS is still a more sim, and not a war game! We dicussed this issues some times ago here and on the devel-list.

Be aware of, that we mostly are a civilian sim- of course we have some military aircrafts, and most of them are really great! But the overall conclusion was, that we don't simulate the destrying of any objects like other aircrafts!
Some trainings possibilities like dogfight would be nice- but in the way the real air force does this: they get an signal by eletronics when they are shotdown in a training dogfight. That's something useful- but only between some selected aircrafts- I don't want to be shotdown over KSFO when we want to have such a nice flight over MP.....

If you want to have a military sim which is OpenSource head on to: http://csp.sourceforge.net/wiki/Main_Page
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Re: Dogfights

Postby redneck » Mon May 04, 2009 6:06 pm

Hey, we didn't say everyone has to be involved in combat all the time. Think about it. Someone produces military a/c, people are going to want guns, missiles, and bombs. We get guns and bombs, people are going to want destruction and chaos. You don't have to push people away from FG. People like this sim, and want to be able to dogfight every once in a while. We want to be able to choose from various types of a/c. Usually, we do settle for the peaceful scenic flights in formation over mp. That's great. If you hate the idea so much, maybe there should be a way to regulate it. We suggested a toggle feature, but that wasn't good enough. What if it was impossible to dogfight around the more populated, non-military airports? What if there was a way to only allow it within 100 nm of a military air base, or over the ocean, via the use of at least one mp carrier.
Honestly, if it hadn't been for the fact that I've gotten used to FG and made friends through it, I would have just switched to csp after seeing that post. That is what I was looking for anyway when I first found FG, but I eventually found the scenic flights peaceful, and had fun trying to master how to land different a/c, as well as land a heli and a small plane on top of the KSFO ATC tower, and land several different planes on Nimitz, including several that don't have a hook or have a hook and no catapult; then try to takeoff. I had some fun, challenging flights through the Grand Canyon, and have enjoyed every mp event I've participated in.
It doesn't have to be a war sim. It's only planes. Wars have tanks, battleships, and soldiers too :wink: . Not everyone has to dogfight or worry about having their plane split in half hurtling toward the ground in a ball of flame. It just seems unfair that you try to push us away into a new community just b/c our ideas don't agree with yours.
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Re: Dogfights

Postby 2011futuremarine » Mon May 04, 2009 6:50 pm

\Atleast half of the world's aircraft are military, and more advanced aircraft have been built because of the need of the military, therefore it's only just to give the military part of aviation their share. There's plenty of ways of getting around the problem of shooting someone down that's just out for a nice peaceful cruise. That's no problem. Just because it can have a dogfighting feature does not mean it's a war game, it would not be a game, it'd be a sim.
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Re: Dogfights

Postby Christopher2222 » Mon May 04, 2009 7:11 pm

HHS wrote:That's something useful- but only between some selected aircrafts- I don't want to be shotdown over KSFO when we want to have such a nice flight over MP.....


That's what the combat mode is for. So you can't be shot down. It still allows dogfights but only between willing participants and people who have combat mode activated from the preferences menu.

I know there's combat sims out there but there's more realism in Flightgear. Like I said maybe for the future. For now, playing tag in the mountains over the Andes or the Alps is almost as fun!
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Re: Dogfights

Postby redneck » Mon May 04, 2009 7:54 pm

Christopher2222 wrote:
HHS wrote:That's something useful- but only between some selected aircrafts- I don't want to be shotdown over KSFO when we want to have such a nice flight over MP.....


That's what the combat mode is for. So you can't be shot down. It still allows dogfights but only between willing participants and people who have combat mode activated from the preferences menu.

I know there's combat sims out there but there's more realism in Flightgear. Like I said maybe for the future. For now, playing tag in the mountains over the Andes or the Alps is almost as fun!

My point exactly.
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Re: Dogfights

Postby 2011futuremarine » Mon May 04, 2009 8:01 pm

well said, Christopher2222 ;)
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Re: Dogfights

Postby HHS » Mon May 04, 2009 9:56 pm

redneck wrote:Hey, we didn't say everyone has to be involved in combat all the time. Think about it. ...You don't have to push people away from FG. People like this sim, and want to be able to dogfight every once in a while. ....


Calm down please !

Please read my posting again- and you will see, that I don't want to push people away, or I'm against totally the idea of dogfights! Indeed it sounds like fun.
But I can't see that all people want that.
So I quoted some things from a past dicussion on the devel-list, a time before this forum existed.
The fact is that the most developers was against such a combat mode, and they really feared to be shot down of some kids while peaceful flying.
The other thing is, that the FlightGear Project was mainly made for a peaceful simulation. Believe me- we had this dicussion already on the devel-list, and it was a strong discussion! ;-)

The dilemma is that most of the 50% of all aircrafts are military and we simulate a lot of them and FGFS is also used for developing military aircrafts- it would be consequent to make them react on shooting. But there is still the question left: where ends simulation and where a game begins? You can be sure that there will be main developers totally against it, even your proposed system works really good, just because they see this mode as "game". It really looks sometimes strange to me when young people discover FGFS and the first question is: Can I shoot down other aircrafts? FGFS was developed first for simulating flying, not shooting down.

Behind dogfights is more than "shoot someone down"- it is real flying! You need to use all controlls; keeping the aircraft in its limitation range; not to crash on the ground and of course the combatant in target. That's why I'm not totally against dogfights. But some of the ideas here sounded like taken from a game.

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Re: Dogfights

Postby 2011futuremarine » Mon May 04, 2009 10:30 pm

It's not like a game unless you call dogfights in RL a game. :) Just as much as someone could call flying around in a cessna a game...no, it'd have to be a sim oriented, just like it is now. That's why so many of us like fg, because it's much more realistic than these other "sims".
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Re: Dogfights

Postby xiii » Tue May 05, 2009 1:17 am

HHS wrote:Behind dogfights is more than "shoot someone down"- it is real flying! You need to use all controlls; keeping the aircraft in its limitation range; not to crash on the ground and of course the combatant in target.


Some people press me to add guns to my aircrafts, and I do it, well I can't model a flying cannon (the A-10) and refuse to let it work... And boys are so happy to shoot every where...
But I agree with Heiko, no need of guns to see if you can dogfight, just try to stay airborne and stick on your adversary six hours for more than 10 sec. If you can, get closer. And if it is too easy, just try some one else. Those FG aircrafts can have guns, but I really wonder why it is so important. Flying or even fighting is not shooting. Nobody here speaks about dogfight flying, but you all want to shoot at something.
Believe me, we have confrontations with Jano since a long time and we never needed weapons to win or loose the round. Generally we just loose SA* and hit the ground. Take an aircraft which does not forgive out of the envelope maneuvers and the thing become even more difficult.

By the way, boys usually want weapons and forgiving aircrafts... Yeah, I see, easy shooting....

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