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Red Griffin ATC - Speaking ATC addon for Flightgear

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Re: Red Griffin ATC - Speaking ATC addon for Flightgear

Postby RedGriffin » Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:58 am

Lovely video from ShadowFoxGamer explaining how to install Red Griffin ATC. It shows the installation process in a windows system, however the installation process is the same for other systems and operating systems as well.

Enjoy it!

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Re: Red Griffin ATC - Speaking ATC addon for Flightgear

Postby ruhuna » Thu Aug 05, 2021 7:53 am

Hi Red Griffin,
I am really enjoying using the ATC with both the pilot and the ATControllers on speech synthesizer. However I would like to 'talk' to the Controller using my computer mic. I searched the forum but could not find any advice. Can you please tell me, if it is possible and how to do it.
Thank you in advance.
Kind regards, ruhuna
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Re: Red Griffin ATC - Speaking ATC addon for Flightgear

Postby RedGriffin » Thu Aug 05, 2021 4:57 pm

[/quote]
ruhuna wrote in Thu Aug 05, 2021 7:53 am:Hi Red Griffin,

Hello there!

ruhuna wrote in Thu Aug 05, 2021 7:53 am:I am really enjoying using the ATC with both the pilot and the ATControllers on speech synthesizer. However I would like to 'talk' to the Controller using my computer mic. I searched the forum but could not find any advice. Can you please tell me, if it is possible and how to do it.
Thank you in advance.

I am very glad to read you are enjoying using my Red Griffin ATC. As for your specific request, talking to the computer by using your microphone would require a speech recognition software which is far beyond the scope of this addon. Not to mention - and as far as I can tell - this would be quite impossible to be implemented in Nasal language, both for the lack of support for the audio hardware and for the fact the process would be very time and resource consuming for a language like Nasal, even in its very basic form.
I guess you should consider using FGCom_3.0, although a truly different project from Red Griffin ATC, both in its scope and function, but it would let you talk to an ATC operator by using your microphone.

ruhuna wrote in Thu Aug 05, 2021 7:53 am:Kind regards, ruhuna

Thank you for using Red Griffin ATC and I hope you can continue enjoying it.

Kindest regards.
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Re: Red Griffin ATC - Speaking ATC addon for Flightgear

Postby ruhuna » Fri Aug 06, 2021 7:52 am

Thank you very much for your reply, Red Griffin.

I think I will stick with R G ATC :) Cheers!
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Re: Red Griffin ATC - Speaking ATC addon for Flightgear

Postby ruhuna » Wed Aug 25, 2021 4:37 am

Hi there,

Sometimes I run into problems switching on the radio. For instance Boeing 777-200ER at KSFO I entered 121.8 MHz in VHF L but failed to ON the radio. Then I tried different communication radio frequencies (GND, TWR, ATIS) in VHF C and VHF R but none of them worked. On the other hand R G in Boeing 737-800, MD-11 and A330 in the same airport worked.

Is it an issue with 777 or do I need 'set up' something before hand in 777?

Thank you in advance.
Regards, Ruhuna
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Re: Red Griffin ATC - Speaking ATC addon for Flightgear

Postby RedGriffin » Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:12 am

ruhuna wrote in Wed Aug 25, 2021 4:37 am:Hi there,

Sometimes I run into problems switching on the radio. For instance Boeing 777-200ER at KSFO I entered 121.8 MHz in VHF L but failed to ON the radio. Then I tried different communication radio frequencies (GND, TWR, ATIS) in VHF C and VHF R but none of them worked. On the other hand R G in Boeing 737-800, MD-11 and A330 in the same airport worked.

Is it an issue with 777 or do I need 'set up' something before hand in 777?

Thank you in advance.
Regards, Ruhuna

Hello there!
Are you sure the 777 radios are turned on and the volume is at least 10% up? Red Griffin ATC, in order to use a radio, needs it to be turned on and the volume sufficiently high and, of course, tuned to a valid station in range.
For your information, to power the 777 radio on, you need to "push" (click with left mouse button) the volume knob of the corresponding radio (VHF L, R & C, which is located just below the "MIC" button and has an arrow in it. When you push the power on button, you will see the "green light" on. At this point Red Griffin ATC detects your radio is on and can use it.

Kindest regards.
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Re: Red Griffin ATC - Speaking ATC addon for Flightgear

Postby ruhuna » Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:58 am

Hi R G,

I followed your advice and managed to turn on the radio. Its working now! :)

Thanks a lot!

Best regards, Ruhuna
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Re: Red Griffin ATC - Speaking ATC addon for Flightgear

Postby ruhuna » Sun Nov 14, 2021 3:41 am

Hi there,
As I have mentioned before I am quite happy with R G ATC. However I came across 'Air Traffic Control' in Aircraft / Browse and downloaded it. Can someone please explain what it is and how to use it.
Thanks in advance. ruhuna
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Re: Red Griffin ATC - Speaking ATC addon for Flightgear

Postby wkitty42 » Sun Nov 14, 2021 12:10 pm

if you are talking about what i think you are, that is just a camera view for use with ATC software that you can use with FG where you are the ATC controlling other craft...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: Red Griffin ATC - Speaking ATC addon for Flightgear

Postby ruhuna » Mon Nov 15, 2021 5:17 am

Thanks for the reply wkitty42. Yes we are both talking about the same thing. Cheers
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Re: Red Griffin ATC - Speaking ATC addon for Flightgear

Postby Panic » Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:31 pm

Noticed the difference between the ATC's altitude (true) and the altimeter within the aircraft (with QNH set). Was enough for the ATC to keep yelling at me to ascent to the approved altitude - got quiet annoying...
(Was taking off in Northern Europe, with temperatures around the freezing point).

Not sure if this is the best solution, but played around with the code a little and found a fix by changing the altitude used by the ATC to /instrumentation/altimeter/pressure-alt-ft + 876 * ( qnhinhg - 29.92 ).
pressure-alt-ft doesn't seem to be affected by the QHN set in the altimeter and thus still requires the pilot to set this for the ATC to work.

Mostly just guessing here, so my apologies if I'm all wrong, just thought I'd share my experiences.
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Re: Red Griffin ATC - Speaking ATC addon for Flightgear

Postby RedGriffin » Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:19 am

Panic wrote in Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:31 pm:Noticed the difference between the ATC's altitude (true) and the altimeter within the aircraft (with QNH set). Was enough for the ATC to keep yelling at me to ascent to the approved altitude - got quiet annoying...
(Was taking off in Northern Europe, with temperatures around the freezing point).

Not sure if this is the best solution, but played around with the code a little and found a fix by changing the altitude used by the ATC to /instrumentation/altimeter/pressure-alt-ft + 876 * ( qnhinhg - 29.92 ).
pressure-alt-ft doesn't seem to be affected by the QHN set in the altimeter and thus still requires the pilot to set this for the ATC to work.

Mostly just guessing here, so my apologies if I'm all wrong, just thought I'd share my experiences.

Hello there and thank you for your feedback.
As far as I can tell, I have never noticed any difference between Red Griffin ATC QNH and aircraft's QNH, provided you properly set it to the value suggested by the ATC and your aircraft's altimeter is properly working (including the nasal code of the aircraft). It seems you properly set this value in your aircraft and, to me, it is quite odd the two values do not match.
Can you please tell me about your scenario and configuration?
What aircraft are you using? What is the airport you are taking off from?
Moreover, with your fix, you are relying on the aircraft's altimeter while Red Griffin ATC (being virtually controlled by the tower :-) ) relies on real altitude values, that is the actual altitude the aircraft is flying at. For this reason, the ATC uses /position properties and not /instrumentation properties.

Kind regards.
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Re: Red Griffin ATC - Speaking ATC addon for Flightgear

Postby Panic » Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:43 pm

The altimeter in the plane is subject to weather conditions, even when setting QNH. Just did a quick test flight to confirm this in Flightgear.

Used the default Cessna c172p (Flightgear 2020.3.11), starting from ESGG, flying runway heading until ALT 8500 feet. Did the experiment twice under different weather conditions using default runway. Unfortunately this meant that one was northbound and the other southbound (didn't realise before afterwards).

Notice the big difference in Red Griffin ALT (8681 ft versus 7844 ft) in the two flights.

Flight #1: Used weather scenario "Fair weather", taking off towards the south.
Temp. at flight level: 3.8 C, Temp. at sea level: 21.0 C (from properties /environment)
Red Griffin ATC: 29.96 inHg (from log dialog), ALT 8681 ft, AGL 8609 ft, HDG 203 (from ATC dialog, white text).
Indicated alt: 8511 ft, Presure alt: 8474 ft, Setting 29.96 inHg (from properties /instrumentation/altimeter).

Flight #2: Used real-world weather (not advanced), taking off towards the north.
Temp. at flight level: -22.5 C, Temp. at sea level: -7.0 C (from properties /environment)
Red Griffin ATC: 30.05 inHg (from log dialog), ALT 7844 ft, AGL 7654 ft, HDG 30 (from ATC dialog, white text).
Indicated alt: 8497 ft, Presure alt: 8382 ft, Setting 30.05 inHg (from properties /instrumentation/altimeter).

Altimeter in the Cessna is also visually showing ~8500 ft in both weather conditions.

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Re: Red Griffin ATC - Speaking ATC addon for Flightgear

Postby RedGriffin » Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:17 am

Panic wrote in Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:43 pm:The altimeter in the plane is subject to weather conditions, even when setting QNH. Just did a quick test flight to confirm this in Flightgear.

Hello and thank you for the detailed report and feedback.
I tested Red Griffin ATC with your exact settings and I see there are differences between /position and /instrumentation/altimeter. (and this of course expected and normal, also because of pressure affecting aircraft's altimeter)
As far as I can tell, an ATC cannot rely on the aircraft's instrumentation, also because it does not have "physical access" to those data, apart what the transponder may send to the ATC, in case it is set to ALT.
I however cannot see such big differences between the two property sets, although I see about a 100 ft difference. I also experimented with other aircraft and I see the one having the broadest difference with /position properties is Cessna 172S (altimeter properly set to QNH, of course) while in other aircraft (I tested many) the difference is sometimes minimal of just few feet.
I will however investigate more on this although I am absolutely convinced the ATC must use /position properties because they represent the actual aircraft position, including altitudes.

May you be so kind to test the same conditions with other aircraft as well? Possibly using different aircraft types (say, multi engine, jet, turbo prop, airliner)

Thank you for your support and feedback. I will however investigate more.

Best regards.
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Re: Red Griffin ATC - Speaking ATC addon for Flightgear

Postby Panic » Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:57 pm

I assume you did try with real (cold) weather, because I also only got 100 ft difference on Fair Weather.
Btw. using the c172p which comes with the installer (FlightGear 2020.3/data/Aircraft/c172p/c172p-set.xml).
Hope it's not me making some kind of silly mistake to get those 600-700 ft differences.

I originally experienced this with the DHC-6, went to the Cessna because I thought it was an issue with the aircraft.
Unfortunately, I didn't record the numbers back then. Will do next time.

My knowledge about aviation is unfortunately not enough to know what the ATC actually sees in their towers. Was wondering about this myself also.

This started with me playing around with different aircrafts, airports and ATC systems. Was looking for some good combinations that give a pleasant flying experience.
In comparison to the inbuilt ATC, I like how this one keeps showing buttons and gives you options, no matter what situation you're in. The inbuilt one does do ground networks (in some airports), but then it freezes up with no buttons and leaves you stuck somewhere.

I'll keep an eye on this issue moving forward.

Update
Aerostar-700, flying out of ESNQ
Real: 8697 ft
Indicated: 9766 ft

Also noticed the values within environment/metar:
pressure-inhg: 30.120583
pressure-sea-level-inhg: 30.260009
station-elevation-ft: 1005

The actual METAR string, and its description does not contain the sea-level pressure, as one might expect:

2021/12/07 18:50 EFET 071850Z AUTO 05005KT 9999 OVC047 M19/M21 Q1020
(METAR automatically generated)Airport-Id: EFETReport time: 2021/12/7 18:50 UTCmin. Visibility: >=25 km >=15.5 US-miles max. Visibility: 25 km 15.5 US-miles Wind: from the NE (50 deg) at 9.3 km/h 5 kt = 5.8 mph = 2.6 m/sTemperature: -19 C -2.2 FDewpoint: -21 C -5.8 FRel. Humidity: 84 %Pressure: 1020 hPa 30.12 in. HgSky condition: sky overcast at 4700 ft 1430 m
Last edited by Panic on Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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