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Red Griffin ATC - Speaking ATC addon for Flightgear

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Re: Red Griffin ATC - Speaking ATC addon for Flightgear

Postby wkitty42 » Sat Feb 01, 2020 3:07 pm

this is akin to what i do when i'm plane spotting at some airport(s) and the AI get hung up... i open the property tree, locate the stuck AI craft and give them a swift boot by setting their speed to (generally) 15 knots so they'll taxi on... in some cases, i may have to do that a few times as they stop when detecting another craft in their path... but once they get past a certain point, they generally mosey on like they are supposed to do...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: Red Griffin ATC - Speaking ATC addon for Flightgear

Postby RedGriffin » Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:52 am

I am very glad to announce I have just released RedGriffin ATC version 1.0.0 beta 3. This new version is a major step forward to the final and stable release and features many new functions, bug fixes and improvements.
I have also updated the main message of this thread where you can also find the direct links to download the whole package.

This is the changelog for version 1.0.0 beta 3 - 8 February 2020

    - runwayInUse() now consider wind direction properly in determining runway
    - Implemented CTR airspaces
    - Pilot's request messages are now shown on the screen before ATC reply
    - ATC now automatically warns the pilot in case the airplane is flying too low or the aircraft is heading towards terrain (such as hills or mountains)
    - Implemented flight levels request
    - Bug fixes and many improvements

For a full description and instructions on how to install the addon, please refer to the Readme file or the first message of this thread.

As usual, your valuable support, feedback, suggestions and comments are always welcome.

Enjoy Flightgear and RedGriffin ATC!
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Re: Red Griffin ATC - Speaking ATC addon for Flightgear

Postby pb321 » Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:25 pm

Congratulations on what should be a nice add-on! I like the interface very much. I've spent several hours using the latest 1.0.0 beta 3 version and have the following suggestions/comments:

  • When returning Departure Information, the QNH was spoken as something like "QNH minus one billion five hundred thousand (...)" . The displayed QNH was 1014 and I believe this should be stated as "One Zero One Four". I don't know where the "minus one billion five hundred thousand...", etc. came from. Also, as has been suggested in another post above, could a preference be set for hPa or inHg?
  • Flying at KATW, I noticed two things: 1) Communications returns "KATW ApproachLETON Ground". This should have been "Appleton Ground" but not a combination of "Approach" and "Appleton Ground". 2) When Request Taxi was made, it indicated Runway 29 should be used. There is no such runway. Runway 30 is the closest.
  • Could a tolerance be set for the assigned flight level? (I believe X-Plane uses +- 200 feet) This would require that the aircraft is flying outside this tolerance before an alert message is provided.
  • When a selection is made by clicking, it might be helpful to highlight the selected box by changing color, putting text in bold, etc.

I very much like this add-on! The above is certainly not meant as criticism -- only as changes/additions to consider as you continue to develop RGATC.

Thank you!
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Re: Red Griffin ATC - Speaking ATC addon for Flightgear

Postby RedGriffin » Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:39 pm

pb321 wrote in Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:25 pm:Congratulations on what should be a nice add-on! I like the interface very much. I've spent several hours using the latest 1.0.0 beta 3 version and have the following suggestions/comments:

Hello there!
First of all, thank you for downloading RedGriffin ATC and for testing it. I am very glad to read you spent several hours with it!!! :)

pb321 wrote in Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:25 pm:When returning Departure Information, the QNH was spoken as something like "QNH minus one billion five hundred thousand (...)" . The displayed QNH was 1014 and I believe this should be stated as "One Zero One Four". I don't know where the "minus one billion five hundred thousand...", etc. came from. Also, as has been suggested in another post above, could a preference be set for hPa or inHg?

Bug acknowledged and fixed. I wonder how I could possibly fail to notice this bug as I heard that message over and over. I guess I need to pay more attention to my ears! :-D
As for the hPa or inHg settings, I have already planned to have it in the settings windows - to be implemented in the near future - including other settings. You should also consider (and this is why I have both units of measure) some planes have the altimeter setting in hPa while other have it in inHg. As I do not have this information available in Flightgear (I mean, the unit used by the selected aircraft) I thought about having both in ATC messages.

pb321 wrote in Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:25 pm:Flying at KATW, I noticed two things: 1) Communications returns "KATW ApproachLETON Ground". This should have been "Appleton Ground" but not a combination of "Approach" and "Appleton Ground". 2) When Request Taxi was made, it indicated Runway 29 should be used. There is no such runway. Runway 30 is the closest.

Bug acknowledged and (hopefully) fixed. In order to have a better description of radio stations, I normalize it in order to have "ground" instead of "gnd", "approach" instead of "app" and so on. The function I use for this purpose does a straight substitution of these keywords and therefore the first three letters of APPLETON are replaced by "Approach". That's why you see "ApproachLETON". I have now improved the pattern substitution in order to avoid such cases and it should now avoid such a confusion.

pb321 wrote in Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:25 pm:Could a tolerance be set for the assigned flight level? (I believe X-Plane uses +- 200 feet) This would require that the aircraft is flying outside this tolerance before an alert message is provided.

RedGriffin ATC currently uses a tolerance of +/-400 feet before alerting the pilot to correct the altitude. I supposed this to be fairly enough in order to avoid an obsessive check which could lead to a continuous alert.

pb321 wrote in Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:25 pm:When a selection is made by clicking, it might be helpful to highlight the selected box by changing color, putting text in bold, etc.

This is a lovely idea. I see what I can do and how it can be done with Nasal's widgets functions. Either way, changing the color of the selected button or having its text in boldface, is a good idea and a nice reminder about the last selected request.

pb321 wrote in Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:25 pm:I very much like this add-on! The above is certainly not meant as criticism -- only as changes/additions to consider as you continue to develop RGATC.

Thank you!

Thank you so much for your feedback and for having taken the time to use, test and (hopefully) enjoy RedGriffin ATC. I am actively developing and maintaining this addon (although I am doing this in my spare time) and I am looking forward in releasing a stable version soon.
For the moment, the bug fixes and ideas you suggested will certainly be included in the next beta version which is about to be released, I think, in few days.

In case you have more suggestions or feedback, please feel free to share. Thank you for your time.
Last edited by RedGriffin on Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Red Griffin ATC - Speaking ATC addon for Flightgear

Postby RedGriffin » Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:46 pm

pb321 wrote in Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:25 pm:2) When Request Taxi was made, it indicated Runway 29 should be used. There is no such runway. Runway 30 is the closest.

I forgot to comment this. I tried KATW and I see it has two runways: 03/21 and 11/29. RedGriffin ATC indicates runway 29 as the active one. Please note I am using Filghtgear 2019.1.2 and I do not know whether this is different in older versions, but, as far as I can tell, it correctly choose Runway 29.
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Re: Red Griffin ATC - Speaking ATC addon for Flightgear

Postby pb321 » Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:25 pm

Looking forward to the next beta!!

Thinking ahead...it would be really nice if you could somehow work out logic to include the following taxiing communications (taken from the FlightGear Wiki at http://wiki.flightgear.org/ATC_phraseology#Climb.2C_cruise.2C_descent:

Pilot: Station, callsign holding short runway number at intersection
Controller: Callsign, cross runway number at intersection
Pilot: Cross runway number at intersection, callsign

The pilot needs to cross a runway and asks the ground controller for permission; the ground controller obtains a clearance from Tower (not reported here) and authorizes the pilot to cross.

Controller: Callsign, hold short of position
Pilot: Will hold short of position, callsign

The ground controller asks the pilot to stop at position (a taxiway entrance, runway crossing...). As soon as the pilot reaches the designated point, (s)he must inform the controller that the aircraft is "holding short".
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Re: Red Griffin ATC - Speaking ATC addon for Flightgear

Postby RedGriffin » Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:54 pm

pb321 wrote in Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:25 pm:Thinking ahead...it would be really nice if you could somehow work out logic to include the following taxiing communications (taken from the FlightGear Wiki at http://wiki.flightgear.org/ATC_phraseology#Climb.2C_cruise.2C_descent:

It would certainly be great if only Flightgear could provide information about taxiways. As far as I can tell, the airport's objects describing taxiways are always empty or, at least, I could not find an airport having non empty taxiways objects so far.
I would clearly love to have those information as this would improve realism of taxing operations and, more important, it would be easier to find the proper runway as this would provide a sort of guidance.
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Re: Red Griffin ATC - Speaking ATC addon for Flightgear

Postby Bjoern » Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:51 pm

RedGriffin wrote in Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:54 pm:It would certainly be great if only Flightgear could provide information about taxiways. As far as I can tell, the airport's objects describing taxiways are always empty or, at least, I could not find an airport having non empty taxiways objects so far.
I would clearly love to have those information as this would improve realism of taxing operations and, more important, it would be easier to find the proper runway as this would provide a sort of guidance.


You can make it optional for now.

Taxiway information is stored in [ICAO].groundnet.xml files in "Airport" folders pulled from Terrasync), so obtaining nodes is possible if a ground net for the current airport is present. The main problem is deriving a route finding algorithm (maybe check the AI ground behavior code for an example?) and testing all nodes for intersection type to find which adjacent nodes are on a runway.
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Re: Red Griffin ATC - Speaking ATC addon for Flightgear

Postby pb321 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:52 pm

In addition to what @Bjoern has stated, and regarding the following:
more important, it would be easier to find the proper runway as this would provide a sort of guidance.

Many (particularly major) airports will have a file in addition to the ICAO.groundnet.xml called "ICAO.rwyuse.xml". This file may override the normal wind selection and use the priorities indicated within the file. You might consider it within your add-on, as it could assign runways just as they are assigned to AI Traffic, so the same runway would be used by both. Exactly how this works, unfortunately, may be somewhat of a mystery (from what I've read on this forum, anyway), as the code has never been deciphered well enough to understand it.
Here is part of a rwyuse file:
Code: Select all
 <!-- commercial schedule -->
  <schedule name="day">
   <takeoff>21R, 03L, 09L, 27R</takeoff>
   <takeoff>22L, 04R, 09L, 27R</takeoff>
   <landing>21L, 03R, 09R, 27L</landing>
   <landing>22R, 04L, 09R, 27L</landing>
  </schedule>

This assigns two takeoff and two landing runways to AI Traffic. The runways are assigned in the order listed. The takeoff/landing "set" assigned to an AI Aircraft (whether first <takeoff>21R, 03L, 09L, 27R</takeoff> or second <takeoff>22L, 04R, 09L, 27R</takeoff>) seems to be random. Somehow wind is considered, but I've yet to see an explanation of the wind related information included in the file. I have noticed that the end of the runway used (whether 21R or 03L, for example) may change with the prevailing wind, if the wind is significant. Maybe someone else reading this knows better how this works?
Hope this helps.
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Re: Red Griffin ATC - Speaking ATC addon for Flightgear

Postby RedGriffin » Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:28 am

Bjoern wrote in Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:51 pm:You can make it optional for now.

Taxiway information is stored in [ICAO].groundnet.xml files in "Airport" folders pulled from Terrasync), so obtaining nodes is possible if a ground net for the current airport is present. The main problem is deriving a route finding algorithm (maybe check the AI ground behavior code for an example?) and testing all nodes for intersection type to find which adjacent nodes are on a runway.

Yes, I noticed that but I also noticed not all the airports have a complete groundnet file. Taxiways are also defined in other files as well, including [ICAO].dat
I supposed those data were already used by Flightgear to populate the taxiways property of airport's Nasal ghost. Although the properties of each taxiway vector does not contain any usable information about taxiways connection, it would certainly be a "good start" in order to implement a sort of algorithm to be used for defining a route/connection from a specific point to a runway.
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Re: Red Griffin ATC - Speaking ATC addon for Flightgear

Postby RedGriffin » Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:34 am

pb321 wrote in Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:52 pm:In addition to what @Bjoern has stated, and regarding the following:
more important, it would be easier to find the proper runway as this would provide a sort of guidance.

I guess this is where Flightgear fetches the runway in use which is sometimes defined in property /sim/atc/runway?
If so, I am already using this property and, in case it has a value, I am using that runway despite of wind direction or any other factor involved in runway determination.
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Re: Red Griffin ATC - Speaking ATC addon for Flightgear

Postby RedGriffin » Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:08 pm

I am very glad to announce I have just released RedGriffin ATC version 1.0.0 Release Candidate 1. We are getting close to the stable and final release of 1.0.0!

I have also updated the main message of this thread where you can also find the direct links to download the whole package. Please note I moved the whole project to sourceforge.

This is the changelog for version 1.0.0 RC 1 - 1 March 2020

    - Improved altitude check and determination
    - Departure Information: QNH is now correctly spoken
    - Improved radio station name normalization in order to avoid pattern confusion
    - Altitude determination now properly consider Route Manager's Flight Plan
    - Improved flight level requests

For a full description and instructions on how to install the addon, please refer to the Readme file or the first message of this thread.

As usual, your valuable support, feedback, suggestions and comments are always welcome.

Enjoy Flightgear and RedGriffin ATC!
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Re: Red Griffin ATC - Speaking ATC addon for Flightgear

Postby Michat » Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:21 pm

Talking with Miguel who is testing ATC Griffin. After some confusion about github, gitlab and sourceforge. :oops:

He tried last release from S~F. He removed former Atc~Griffin files, then he moved all new files to FG getting this fatal error.

Failed to register add~on module.
Already registered.

I guess the old module reg may live somewhere in fg.org. So we could remove it ?

Question: Is the addon-metadata.xml version related, or instead off, is free of versioning ?


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Re: Red Griffin ATC - Speaking ATC addon for Flightgear

Postby RedGriffin » Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:11 pm

Michat wrote in Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:21 pm:Talking with Miguel who is testing ATC Griffin. After some confusion about github, gitlab and sourceforge. :oops:

I moved the project to sourceforge because it gives the possibility to have a wiki, add screenshots and, moreover, I see most of the Flightgear stuff is hosted in sourceforge, so I thought it would have been a good idea to have my addon there as well.
As a matter of fact, I have never released RedGriffin ATC in github.

Michat wrote in Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:21 pm:He tried last release from S~F. He removed former Atc~Griffin files, then he moved all new files to FG getting this fatal error.

Failed to register add~on module.
Already registered.

I guess the old module reg may live somewhere in fg.org. So we could remove it ?

Question: Is the addon-metadata.xml version related, or instead off, is free of versioning ?

I installed in my machine few minutes ago both the .tar.gz and .zip files I uploaded in sourceforge and both are working fine. I tried both by overwriting the old directory and removing the whole directory and unpack the files. I could not find any error and Flightgear did not complain at all.
You may try to clean or delete Flightgear cache and try to reinstall the addon? In this case Flightgear is forced to read everything over, including addons (as far as I can tell).
It could also be you added the addon twice in the launcher addon tab or in fgfs options?
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Re: Red Griffin ATC - Speaking ATC addon for Flightgear

Postby RedGriffin » Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:13 pm

Michat wrote in Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:21 pm:He tried last release from S~F. He removed former Atc~Griffin files, then he moved all new files to FG getting this fatal error.

Failed to register add~on module.
Already registered.

You may also try to check the [addon-modules] section in your ~/.fgfs/FlightGear/FlightGear.ini and see whether Red Griffin ATC is listed twice?
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