Board index FlightGear Development Scenery

List of unusable airports?

Questions and discussion about enhancing and populating the FlightGear world.

Re: List of unusable airports?

Postby wkitty42 » Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:05 pm

i knew we were still using the btgs at this point and the flattening being done but i was not aware that the draping was on hold for now... interesting...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
User avatar
wkitty42
 
Posts: 9146
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:46 pm
Location: central NC, USA
Callsign: wk42
Version: git next
OS: Kubuntu 20.04

Re: List of unusable airports?

Postby merspieler » Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:23 am

yeah, stuart told me at the hackathon
Nia (you&, she/her)

Please use gender neutral terms when referring to a group of people!

Be the change you wish to see in the world, be an ally to all!

Join the official matrix space
merspieler
 
Posts: 2241
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:43 am
Location: Wish to be in YBCS
Pronouns: you&, she/her
Callsign: you&, she/her
IRC name: merspieler
Version: next
OS: NixOS

Re: List of unusable airports?

Postby SurferTim » Wed Nov 17, 2021 1:17 pm

WS3 sounds like a good thing for the actual terrain.

However, some airports have an ILS or other precision approach. To activate an ILS entered in nav.dat, there must be a matching runway in apt.dat or the custom airport files. Does WS3 provide this when creating a new runway?

As an example, if a user adds the new runway to Cairo with WS3, how does the user add and move the ILS transmitters in nav.dat?
Asking for a friend. ;)
Fly low. Fly slow. Land on a dime. Twin Otter. https://github.com/SurferTim/dhc6p
My other aircraft is a Citation-X https://github.com/SurferTim/CitationX
PirateAir videos at https://www.youtube.com/user/SurferTim850
User avatar
SurferTim
 
Posts: 1708
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:49 pm
Location: Miramar Beach, FL
Callsign: Pirate
Version: 2020.4.0
OS: Ubuntu 18.04

Re: List of unusable airports?

Postby merspieler » Wed Nov 17, 2021 2:32 pm

There's a new apt.dat for ws3. I assume, there will be one for nav as well, once it's ready. right now, the focus is really on rendering and generating it.

As an example, if a user adds the new runway to Cairo with WS3, how does the user add and move the ILS transmitters in nav.dat?


That would be added to what ever nav.dat is in use for WS3 when it gets into terrasync. addon scenery would still need to provide its own nav.dat.
Nia (you&, she/her)

Please use gender neutral terms when referring to a group of people!

Be the change you wish to see in the world, be an ally to all!

Join the official matrix space
merspieler
 
Posts: 2241
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:43 am
Location: Wish to be in YBCS
Pronouns: you&, she/her
Callsign: you&, she/her
IRC name: merspieler
Version: next
OS: NixOS

Re: List of unusable airports?

Postby SurferTim » Wed Nov 17, 2021 2:38 pm

I presume that means the two files will no longer be static. That would be a good thing. :)

When would the new files be checked/downloaded by the FG app? I will presume when FG starts.
Fly low. Fly slow. Land on a dime. Twin Otter. https://github.com/SurferTim/dhc6p
My other aircraft is a Citation-X https://github.com/SurferTim/CitationX
PirateAir videos at https://www.youtube.com/user/SurferTim850
User avatar
SurferTim
 
Posts: 1708
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:49 pm
Location: Miramar Beach, FL
Callsign: Pirate
Version: 2020.4.0
OS: Ubuntu 18.04

Re: List of unusable airports?

Postby merspieler » Wed Nov 17, 2021 6:37 pm

nothing is set in stone here... as I said, not in focus rn.
Nia (you&, she/her)

Please use gender neutral terms when referring to a group of people!

Be the change you wish to see in the world, be an ally to all!

Join the official matrix space
merspieler
 
Posts: 2241
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:43 am
Location: Wish to be in YBCS
Pronouns: you&, she/her
Callsign: you&, she/her
IRC name: merspieler
Version: next
OS: NixOS

Re: List of unusable airports?

Postby SurferTim » Wed Nov 17, 2021 6:54 pm

Any indication of forward motion getting away from those static files is good.
I thought breaking them up into tile-sized chunks would be better due to the total file size when populated. It seems like if the tile is dependent on that data, it should be downloaded with the tile.
Just a thought...

Edit: It just adds one "if".
Currently it is:
if custom_data {}
else default_data{}

How about this?
if custom_data {}
else if TerraSync_data{}
else default_data{}
Fly low. Fly slow. Land on a dime. Twin Otter. https://github.com/SurferTim/dhc6p
My other aircraft is a Citation-X https://github.com/SurferTim/CitationX
PirateAir videos at https://www.youtube.com/user/SurferTim850
User avatar
SurferTim
 
Posts: 1708
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:49 pm
Location: Miramar Beach, FL
Callsign: Pirate
Version: 2020.4.0
OS: Ubuntu 18.04

Re: List of unusable airports?

Postby merspieler » Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:00 pm

No, it's not a simple if....

nav data lives in a navdb which is updated at launch, if the *.dat files have changed. Right now it will become immutable after that.

So if you download new scenery on the fly including the nav data, you'd need to rebuild the navdb which is currently not possible.

Distributing it via terrasync instead of fgdata is certainly possible and easily doable tho

If you want any influence on the outcome or even better contribute to the progress, you best discuss this on the mailing list tho as the core devs are mainly active on there.
Nia (you&, she/her)

Please use gender neutral terms when referring to a group of people!

Be the change you wish to see in the world, be an ally to all!

Join the official matrix space
merspieler
 
Posts: 2241
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:43 am
Location: Wish to be in YBCS
Pronouns: you&, she/her
Callsign: you&, she/her
IRC name: merspieler
Version: next
OS: NixOS

Re: List of unusable airports?

Postby uselessabstraction » Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:56 pm

With regards to the original post, there's a giant electrical pylon on top of Teterboro's (KTEB) runway 06/24 and taxiway G. It's solid/collidable and doesn't seem to go away when the option to render pylons and powerlines / random objects / OSM buildings is disabled.

Image
Last edited by uselessabstraction on Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
uselessabstraction
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:47 pm

Re: List of unusable airports?

Postby tdammers » Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:01 pm

merspieler wrote in Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:00 pm:No, it's not a simple if....

nav data lives in a navdb which is updated at launch, if the *.dat files have changed. Right now it will become immutable after that.

So if you download new scenery on the fly including the nav data, you'd need to rebuild the navdb which is currently not possible.

Distributing it via terrasync instead of fgdata is certainly possible and easily doable tho

If you want any influence on the outcome or even better contribute to the progress, you best discuss this on the mailing list tho as the core devs are mainly active on there.


Loading nav data on the fly would also completely mess up the route manager and any FMS built on top of the flightplan API (which is almost every single one of them). To implement proper flightplan routing, you need the entire nav database available at once, not just when you get there. You technically don't need the actual VOR's and NDB's to exist in the scenery yet, but you do need their positions, IDs, frequencies, and pretty much all the other data, so you pretty much have to just load them anyway. And for RNAV fixes, you just need all the data anyway, because ID and position is literally all there is to them.
tdammers
 
Posts: 391
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:35 am
Callsign: NL256
IRC name: nl256

Re: List of unusable airports?

Postby merspieler » Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:37 pm

uselessabstraction wrote in Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:56 pm:there's a giant electrical pylon on top of Teterboro's (KTEB) runway 06/24 and taxiway G. It's solid/collidable and doesn't seem to go away when the option to render pylons and powerlines / random objects / OSM buildings is disabled.


This is cause it's manually placed there, not autogenerated by osm2city
https://scenery.flightgear.org/static/m ... =13&obj=56
Right cause of action in this case is to file a removal of the object at the scenery database.
Nia (you&, she/her)

Please use gender neutral terms when referring to a group of people!

Be the change you wish to see in the world, be an ally to all!

Join the official matrix space
merspieler
 
Posts: 2241
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:43 am
Location: Wish to be in YBCS
Pronouns: you&, she/her
Callsign: you&, she/her
IRC name: merspieler
Version: next
OS: NixOS

Re: List of unusable airports?

Postby wkitty42 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:30 pm

merspieler wrote in Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:37 pm:Right cause of action in this case is to file a removal of the object at the scenery database.

agreed... if uselessabstratcion wants to, they can make the request here: https://scenery.flightgear.org/app.php?c=Objects&a=view&id=249445 by clicking on the "Delete this object" link...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
User avatar
wkitty42
 
Posts: 9146
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:46 pm
Location: central NC, USA
Callsign: wk42
Version: git next
OS: Kubuntu 20.04

Re: List of unusable airports?

Postby tdammers » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:41 pm

And in the meantime, you can do the following:

1. Create a directory somewhere convenient
2. Spawn at TEB, and look up the scenery tile you're in.
3. Copy the relevant directory structure for both Terrain and Objects from the terrasync dir into yours
4. Look for the offending object in the .stg files, and delete the line that defines the object
5. Add your directory as an additional scenery location when starting fgfs

Note however that this particular object is actually placed correctly; what is wrong is not the object position, but the positioning of the runways and taxiways. You can see this clearly at https://scenery.flightgear.org/static/map/index.html.
tdammers
 
Posts: 391
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:35 am
Callsign: NL256
IRC name: nl256

Previous

Return to Scenery

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests