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Azorean Groundnets with FGAirports

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Re: Azorean Groundnets with FGAirports

Postby BecOzIcan » Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:37 am

I will push the SATA and Azores Airlines traffic and aircraft to NEXT over the weekend.

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Re: Azorean Groundnets with FGAirports

Postby AzulProfundo » Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:32 pm

BecOzIcan wrote in Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:37 am:I will push the SATA and Azores Airlines traffic and aircraft to NEXT over the weekend.


Great! Thanks for the throughout review of the traffic file. The airline has flights for every weekday, but I have just inserted those for Sundays. Completing the schedule can solve the problem. Also, there are other circuits that I did not insert. And the fleet I introduced is just half. In fact they have a total of 6 aircraft: 2 Dash8-200 and 4 Dash8-400.

So, in that case I will focus on modelling the groundnets. I have seen some examples in the AI Traffic topic which can solve the loop problems. And I will begin creating the two remaining groundnets: LPPD Ponta Delgada (the airline hub) and LPLA Lajes. These are larger airports, so more editing work.
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Re: Azorean Groundnets with FGAirports

Postby BecOzIcan » Sat May 01, 2021 2:12 pm

RZO & SAT Traffic and Liveries pushed to GIT.

Cheers
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Re: Azorean Groundnets with FGAirports

Postby BecOzIcan » Sat May 01, 2021 2:26 pm

portreekid wrote in Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:04 pm:Why does the "ga" flight taxi to 16L then? Hmm


Sorry, missed this one, Yep GA should only use 25/07. Will have a look tomorrow

Code: Select all
<?xml version="1.0"?>
<rwyuse>
   <!-- Times are in UTC -->
   <com>
      <!-- Commercial Traffic-->
      <wind tail="7" cross="20"/>
      <time start="00:00" end="24:00" schedule="day"/>
   </com>
   <gen>
      <!-- General Aviation -->
      <wind tail="7" cross="20"/>
      <time start="00:00" end="24:00" schedule="general"/>
   </gen>
   <!-- commercial schedule -->
   <schedule name="day">
      <takeoff>16R, 34L, 16L, 34R</takeoff>
      <landing>16R, 34L, 16L, 34R</landing>
   </schedule>
   <!-- general aviation schedule -->
   <schedule name="general">
      <landing>25, 07</landing>
      <takeoff>25, 07</takeoff>
   </schedule>
</rwyuse>
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Re: Azorean Groundnets with FGAirports

Postby AzulProfundo » Sun May 02, 2021 9:44 pm

BecOzIcan wrote in Sat May 01, 2021 2:12 pm:RZO & SAT Traffic and Liveries pushed to GIT.
[/url]


Great work! Looks fantastic.
However, I use the PPA from saiarcot895 to update my installation of flightgear, so I guess I'll have to wait until the next general update. Unless you can provide a link to the traffic and liveries files.

This weekend I have done a few changes to the groundnets, and a new one for LPPD. They have now loops at each threshold, in order for AI planes align properly with the runway at the end of the backtrack. Arrivals at LPFL Flores are now working as expected, but departure still have problems with the push forward segments. Pushbacks which are unidirectional are working OK.
LPPD is now showing other traffic like TAP and Ryanair, but the SATA commuter airplanes are not showing. Maybe is just a lack of the traffic files for RZO and SAT!

The remaining airport groundnet is for LPLA Lajes. I plan to cover just the civilian airport part. Solving the remaining issues, I will do an upload of the four airports to the groundweb.

I am attaching a screen of the forward push segments in LPFL. As I said, arrivals are OK, but when departing, the AI plane turns right instead of left in the taxiway, and then goes straight to the runway threshold (no backtracking at all).

Image
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Re: Azorean Groundnets with FGAirports

Postby BecOzIcan » Mon May 03, 2021 5:41 am

AzulProfundo wrote in Sun May 02, 2021 9:44 pm:I use the PPA from saiarcot895 to update my installation of flightgear, so I guess I'll have to wait until the next general update. Unless you can provide a link to the traffic and liveries files.

Install a Flightgear nightly build or download the individual files from
https://sourceforge.net/u/becozican/fli ... d3605a3ea/

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Re: Azorean Groundnets with FGAirports

Postby portreekid » Mon May 03, 2021 6:36 am

AzulProfundo wrote in Sun May 02, 2021 9:44 pm:
I am attaching a screen of the forward push segments in LPFL. As I said, arrivals are OK, but when departing, the AI plane turns right instead of left in the taxiway, and then goes straight to the runway threshold (no backtracking at all).


Which case is it? Red or Purple.

Image

Red : The first segment from the parking is too short. Since you have the entry correctly as one way, you are avoiding the other bug.
Purple : the angle of the turn is too high. There is a turnlimit of 30°/s which can lead to missed points as there is no look ahead. I'm only just adding it. The plane misses the point and the way the values are it ends up turning the wrong way.

HTH

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Re: Azorean Groundnets with FGAirports

Postby BecOzIcan » Wed May 05, 2021 1:33 pm

Update for TAP and TAP Express traffic pushed to GIT. Groundnet for LPPT Lisboa merged to terrasync.

Image

I am sure you can take it from there, I ll keep an eye on your groundnets submissions

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Re: Azorean Groundnets with FGAirports

Postby AzulProfundo » Sat May 08, 2021 5:29 pm

portreekid wrote in Mon May 03, 2021 6:36 am:Red : The first segment from the parking is too short. Since you have the entry correctly as one way, you are avoiding the other bug.
Purple : the angle of the turn is too high. There is a turnlimit of 30°/s which can lead to missed points as there is no look ahead. I'm only just adding it. The plane misses the point and the way the values are it ends up turning the wrong way.


Thanks for the advice. I will modify the file and test with the new traffic and liveries sent by BecOzlcan. For this weekend, I will edit also the groundnet for Lajes, the last airport in this first Azorean set. But now, with the complete traffic files, I will then have to look to the remaining airports in the islands! :D
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Re: Azorean Groundnets with FGAirports

Postby AzulProfundo » Sat May 08, 2021 5:39 pm

BecOzIcan wrote in Wed May 05, 2021 1:33 pm:Update for TAP and TAP Express traffic pushed to GIT. Groundnet for LPPT Lisboa merged to terrasync.


Wonderful update! :D :D
I am sure I can learn a lot with the groundnet you created for Lisbon Airport. I have downloaded the individual files for Azores, so I can test them with the new groundnets I am editing, and more to come. So that every airport in the traffic files has an updated and functional groundnet. This way, the skies within the islands will be more populated with AI traffic.
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Re: Azorean Groundnets with FGAirports

Postby AzulProfundo » Sun May 09, 2021 4:13 pm

Just to inform that I have done the upload of the first set of groundnets in Azores, to groundweb. The airports with updated groundnets:

    LPPD - Ponta Delgada (the hub for SATA group)
    LPLA - Lajes (just the civilian part)
    LPHR - Horta
    LPFL - Flores

These four airports are the ones in many circuits for the SATA airline. Other circuits include airports yet to be modeled for groundnets (like LPGR - Graciosa or LPSJ - São Jorge). These will be the next, in a second release. Now that I have more practice, it will be faster! :D

I have done a few tests with the new traffic files and liveries, contributed by BecOzlcan (many thanks), for SAT, RZO and TAP, watching arrivals and departures from those airports, and the result seams reasonable.

There are just a few remarks, which are not related with FGAirports itself (I believe) but with the Traffic Manager.

Positive: I confirmed (in LPLA) that the flight number can be changed for the same airplane. This can solve problems of too many planes for available parkings. Also, in an almost simultaneous departure in LPPD, a plane waited for the other to complete the pushback, thus avoiding a collision in the taxiway.

Negative: Planes are starting rotation too soon, and then struggle to be airborne. When landing in LPFL (short runway), the Dash8-400 touchdowns past the due area and after, it does not have enough runway to stop. So it overshoots and falls at the end of the landfill. But, being an AI plane, it is not destroyed and completes the backtrack to the parking position.

I hope you will have some nice experience with this AI traffic in Azores, as soon as the files become available through Terrasync and the next upgrade. For those using the nightly builds, you can test them right away.
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Re: Azorean Groundnets with FGAirports

Postby BecOzIcan » Sun May 09, 2021 4:46 pm

AzulProfundo wrote in Sun May 09, 2021 4:13 pm:Just to inform that I have done the upload of the first set of groundnets in Azores, to groundweb. The airports with updated groundnets:

    LPPD - Ponta Delgada (the hub for SATA group)
    LPLA - Lajes (just the civilian part)
    LPHR - Horta
    LPFL - Flores



I have not seen any commit for Flores. Rest is merged.

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Re: Azorean Groundnets with FGAirports

Postby portreekid » Sun May 09, 2021 6:45 pm

AzulProfundo wrote in Sun May 09, 2021 4:13 pm:Negative: Planes are starting rotation too soon, and then struggle to be airborne. When landing in LPFL (short runway), the Dash8-400 touchdowns past the due area and after, it does not have enough runway to stop. So it overshoots and falls at the end of the landfill. But, being an AI plane, it is not destroyed and completes the backtrack to the parking position.


How long is the runway? I have to have a look into how it's calculated. That should be one of the easier fixes.

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Re: Azorean Groundnets with FGAirports

Postby AzulProfundo » Mon May 10, 2021 10:24 pm

Hi,

Thanks for the feedback. I have resubmitted the upload for LPFL Flores. I hope this time it went through. Anyway, FGAirports just says that the file upload started, but does not show any information about acknowledging the reception at groundweb.

Regarding this airport runway, its length is 4403 ft according SkyVector. Did not check its length in FlightGear. During the weekend, I did a first flight test for the JBSim Dash8-400, and had a hard time to land it in the longest runway of the islands (LPLA - 12231 ft), just because it is very difficult to slow down the plane, even with the gear down and flaps 15. In the first attempt, the speed in the short final was still 160 kt. In the second attempt, I did a long level flight before the GS, in idle setting, just to slow down to 120 kt, and then putting full flaps. Even so, it was hard to land due to ground effect.

I imagine the AI planes don't have such problems... :D

In the meanwhile, I received a notification from Github :o , complaining about insufficient parking at LPLA. That is true, I did not insert all the official parking positions there. But the remaining ones are in awkward positions, blocking the taxiway. That was the reason to ignore them. Perhaps the best way to put the problem is sharing a couple of pictures.

Parking as modeled in the groundnet (FGAirports):
Image

Official parking at LPLA (Civilian Part):
Image

It can be seen that the remaining parking are on the taxiway itself. So, what to do in this situation? I like to hear from you, before making any changes to the groundnet and submit a new version.

Finally, a word about the position of the groundnet elements. As the apt elements are outdated, I am following the OpenStreetMap position as a guide. But when moving to the FlightGear scenery, the AI planes are misplaced regarding the markings. Some times by small amounts, but in other cases (depends on the airport) can be more than 20 meters. The solution would be to have an updated apt in the background, but in the meanwhile, I will follow OSM reference. But one of the tools should have a feature to move the entire set of coordinates to align with the other, just to solve these issues.
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Re: Azorean Groundnets with FGAirports

Postby BecOzIcan » Tue May 11, 2021 4:49 am

AzulProfundo wrote in Mon May 10, 2021 10:24 pm:Hi, Thanks for the feedback. I have resubmitted the upload for LPFL Flores. I hope this time it went through. Anyway, FGAirports just says that the file upload started, but does not show any information about acknowledging the reception at groundweb.

PR receive. File merged. Route at THR 18 is not long enough. Final nodes of routes starting/ending on run must sit between the runway thresholds. Separate email sent to you

AzulProfundo wrote in Mon May 10, 2021 10:24 pm: In the meanwhile, I received a notification from Github :o , complaining about insufficient parking at LPLA. That is true, I did not insert all the official parking positions there. But the remaining ones are in awkward positions, blocking the taxiway. That was the reason to ignore them. Perhaps the best way to put the problem is sharing a couple of pictures.

This notification came from my comments on the pull request. Our traffic files expect a parking spot for A320 / B737 Aircrafts (Cat C, radius 18) at LPLA.
You could try to fit one at position C1B

AzulProfundo wrote in Mon May 10, 2021 10:24 pm:Finally, a word about the position of the groundnet elements. As the apt elements are outdated, I am following the OpenStreetMap position as a guide. But when moving to the FlightGear scenery, the AI planes are misplaced regarding the markings. Some times by small amounts, but in other cases (depends on the airport) can be more than 20 meters. The solution would be to have an updated apt in the background, but in the meanwhile, I will follow OSM reference. But one of the tools should have a feature to move the entire set of coordinates to align with the other, just to solve these issues.

You will need to regenerate the scenery which should be easy enough given the tiles are mostly water. Search the forums for Terragear / Scenery / WED / QGIS / Shapefiles. Also lookup using a custom APT.dat in your custom scenery folder eg \My Sceneries\NavData\apt

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