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The landing strip lights are barely visible ...

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Re: The landing strip lights are barely visible ...

Postby abassign » Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:36 pm

GinGin wrote in Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:03 am:Hey Abbasign.
Yes, interesting matter.
We can always improve the code, but once again, to start with, check your setup, because the differences between your screens and the others one are quite significant ;)


Image

Honestly, I also thought the same thing, but I don't seem to see big differences with your images. I made a course of approach with the UFO at various distances, maintaining an angle of 4-5 deg of slope.

As you can see at 1 nm the lights are no longer visible (for example the green spotlights that limit the entrance of the runway), these lights are spotlights with lamps over 100-150W (2-4 times greater than a car light ) as indicated by the manuals with a central area of 7 deg and a lower intensity of 15 deg (approximately) these lighthouses, with the declared powers are visible at a distance of different nm in conditions of visibility such as those of the photo. Unfortunately the indications of the technical regulation do not give the visibility in nm or km but only the measurement in candles as rightly to certify these lighting systems it is necessary to have reliable data. The powers in an approaching system for a CAT I ... III are of several KW and therefore the overall lighting could give a visibility around 25-50% of that of the PAPI that instead has been declared by the normative not only as an angle of vision, but also distance.

It must be said that the legislation recommends for example the variation of intensity during landing to avoid problems for the pilot, the track is illuminated in the first part by the lamps placed on the runway level etc ...

Therefore it could be interesting, during the approach, to change the light intensity of the track.

Always up to standard the raised lamps (for example the blue ones) are omnidirectional, have a power of 40W with halogen lamp and therefore are certainly visible along the track, but disappear around 1-2 nm both horizontally and vertically) In practice if flight over the airport at 10,000 ft I have to see the layout of the runways and taxiways. Which I currently do not see. I hope I'm not unlucky with the configuration, but it seems strange to me.
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Re: The landing strip lights are barely visible ...

Postby WoodSTokk » Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:52 pm

abassign wrote in Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:41 am:The possibility of "turning on the lights" via the radio system is also very interesting, a feature widely used for USA tracks in the rural area.


We had allready a short discussion about radio activation. The problem is the MP protocol. If another aircraft is near the airfield and you activate the lights, the other pilot should also see the lights. But this is a property related to the scenery. This means the MP server must control if the lights are on or off (with a timer) and transmit the state to all pilots in visinity.
Also the intensity of the light. Actually in FG scenery, all approach light systems are lit. But in reality, only the approach light systems of activ runways are on.
It will be nice if the ATC (OpenRadar or ATCpie) can control the lights. But a second time, this will be properties that must controlled by the MP server.

And it will be a huge update. We must must build light groups in the scenery files (this includes updates of all airfield sceneries).
The MP server must hold a database of all light groups in the world and the actual state.
So, this feature will be very nice, but it takes much time to implement it and actually there are nobody to do this huge task.
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Re: The landing strip lights are barely visible ...

Postby Thorsten » Fri Sep 27, 2019 1:52 pm

Which I currently do not see. I hope I'm not unlucky with the configuration, but it seems strange to me.


Yes, we've covered that.

I've checked that I see them from 15 miles out and posted a screenshot here. I see them from 100.000 ft straight above the runway if the night is moonless dark and the visibility is good.

You apparently see plenty of things I neither see nor ever coded, for example directional dependence of non-directional lights. The things you describe do not all seem particularly reasonable to me, but - alas - these are not the things I see, not the things I have coded, not the things others see, not things I can fix.

So you're in no good position to comment on what my code does or should do, because it should obvious that you're not seeing the right code. You're seeing something else.

For whatever reason - you need to figure that out. Something does not seem right on your system.

Really.

Posting the next hundred screenshots and complaints won't change that.
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Re: The landing strip lights are barely visible ...

Postby abassign » Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:30 pm

Thorsten wrote in Fri Sep 27, 2019 1:52 pm:...


:shock:

You drank? Because what some of us do not see what you say you see, however the problem is not at high distances, but in the approach phase. The images that I put you speak clear, if you have the equivalent images with the lights visible in the approach phase could allow us to understand if there is a configuration problem, but I do not see those images, you have never posted them and you are the most useless person to solve a problem as you are mentally unable to see the problem. Therefore it would be useful for the whole community that you stop intervening in this discussion if you do not have useful elements, for example explaining where the code that manages the landing lights is located so as to allow quickly, to those who wish, to do tests.
FGFS is a collective work of many enthusiasts and not the result of Th hedonism.

I repeat, if there is no technical information that can help you understand, do not keep writing useless things! Thank you for showing, with your silence, pity for us poor poor people and demented third-class programmers.
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Re: The landing strip lights are barely visible ...

Postby Thorsten » Sat Sep 28, 2019 5:15 am

Thank you for making my point rather clearly.

You have an agenda what people should do to make you happy, if you do not get what you want, you misuse other threads for your statement and you resort to rude language. Collaborative is good when it suits you and people do what you ask, when they refuse your agenda you do not see why you would have to behave collaboratively. But that's not really collaboration, is it?

You simultaneously claim to have completely understood and solved the problem, yet have no technical knowledge to actually implement a solution - statements which are quite at odds with each other.

Yet - as in many past situation - the problem quite clearly seems somewhere on your side - you request to implement features which are there but you happened to disable, you claim FG has introduced some changes that can be traced back to a config slider you moved,... There is a history of that.


I repeat, if there is no technical information that can help you understand, do not keep writing useless things!


Let me repeat:

You're misunderstanding something here - I have no wish at all to collaborate with you in any way. You've talked down on my work many times, you've attacked me personally when I did my job and investigated your merge request when a (false) claim was made that some stuff was stolen - at some point I decided to return your attitude to you.

I intervene in this discussion to prevent you from drawing others into your agenda and repeating the strongly negative experiences I've made with you. I'm not willing to let you send people on a wild goose-chase when it's clear that your understanding of the problem is flawed.

There is a problem at your end.

Find it.

Fix it.

Then, when you can see the code everyone else uses, come with feature requests.

Politely if you do not know where to start.
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Re: The landing strip lights are barely visible ...

Postby abassign » Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:53 am

Th, :shock:

Have you finished your hangover?
So why do you write in this post you continue to write nonsense and stop the discussion in this way. You said something, but now you say the exact opposite. You didn't understand the problem, but you want to say that it doesn't exist, now you say you don't want to solve it, but nobody asked you to solve it. I personally think that the less you do on FGFS the better FGFS can evolve. It is currently a project that has fewer and fewer people participating in the forums, and this is a problem for an Opensource project. So continue with your plans and let others do what they want. So please stop intervening if you have no information that can help you understand the problem.

Otherwise your postings are just spam!
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Re: The landing strip lights are barely visible ...

Postby Thorsten » Sat Sep 28, 2019 8:49 am

So why do you write in this post you continue to write nonsense and stop the discussion in this way


I intervene in this discussion to prevent you from drawing others into your agenda and repeating the strongly negative experiences I've made with you. I'm not willing to let you send people on a wild goose-chase when it's clear that your understanding of the problem is flawed.

You didn't understand the problem, but you want to say that it doesn't exist, now you say you don't want to solve it, but nobody asked you to solve it.


So - working fine as far as I'm concerned - maybe the issue is (once again and again) with your settings?

Just read through what I've written, try to understand it, check your settings thoroughly - and you'll figure it out eventually :D


I personally think that the less you do on FGFS the better FGFS can evolve. It is currently a project that has fewer and fewer people participating in the forums, and this is a problem for an Opensource project


I personally do not care much what you think FGFS needs because consistently it boils down to 'if only everyone would do as you tell them to, it would be so much better'.

Yeah - it'd be better for you.

Face reality - people won't jump because you say so. Development doesn't happen in the forum - because most developers have given up talking to the likes of you long ago and prefer to not even be around because they're so fed-up with the attitude of people who expect that everyone does what they say while they refuse to read anything they get told, and whose idea of collaboration is 'I spit out ideas, someone else codes them'.
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Re: The landing strip lights are barely visible ...

Postby GinGin » Sat Sep 28, 2019 9:04 am

I don't seem to see big differences with your images.

Well, I can.

yours

Image


Image


mine, from a clear night, no weather etc ( seems to have fog on some of yours)

4Nm

Image


2Nm

Image




And maybe don't play with abusive FoV settings or zoom in zoom out, not realistic anyway .
As for 4 K video, they don't represent at all what is seen by eyes from a cockpit.

By night, overhead a field, you see almost nothing. Actually, you find an airport by the absence of lights when you are not in the approach path and high.
You see better the lights from the nearby supermarket.
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Re: The landing strip lights are barely visible ...

Postby abassign » Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:19 pm

GinGin wrote in Sat Sep 28, 2019 9:04 am:
I don't seem to see big differences with your images.

And maybe don't play with abusive FoV settings or zoom in zoom out, not realistic anyway .
As for 4 K video, they don't represent at all what is seen by eyes from a cockpit.
By night, overhead a field, you see almost nothing. Actually, you find an airport by the absence of lights when you are not in the approach path and high.
You see better the lights from the nearby supermarket.


Meanwhile, I wanted to know on which airport you did the test, which graphics card you use and operating system, I have an Nvidia 1080 with Ubuntu operating system. The images I sent you are with automatic landings with 4 deg path and perfectly in the center. For this reason I exclude an alignment problem. I was looking for the code that handles this part to understand what it does, it certainly handles the slope.

Best regards :D
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Re: The landing strip lights are barely visible ...

Postby GinGin » Sat Sep 28, 2019 8:45 pm

1080 I took same airport than you
Bergame and lsza.
Tried different paths and angle .
As you can see there is quite a difference

Do you notice the difference between others screens and yours or no?

Also by night , if you are not at 20 degrees from the final approach path and in a cochèrent path compared to the one calibrated for the runway , you will see nothing of the runway in real .
Pitch dark .

So for me , comparing what we have here in fg and what I am used to see in real , I find it very realistic ( there are maybe some glitches here and there of course , but far from being an obscur fantasy like you said imho)
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Re: The landing strip lights are barely visible ...

Postby WoodSTokk » Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:58 pm

My hardware is a nVidia GeForce GTX 1060 (6GB VRAM) drives a display with 1680x1050 resolution.
The Computer has a AMD Phenom II X4 955 Processor (Quadcore) and 24GB RAM.
OS is Debian 10.0 (Buster) with a 4.19.0-5-amd64 kernel and the proprietary nVidia driver 418.74-1.
FG Version 2019.2.0 (self compiled) running with ALS and double or quad AA.
The scenery is default (per TerraSync) on LSZA.

As i sayed previously, the view direction doesn't matter because a bug in FG since 2018.
The only lights that take the direction into acount are the VASI / PAPI lights.
All other lights are visible from every direction.
You can check that by looking along the runway and see the approach light system behind the end.
Normally you should not see it.
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Re: The landing strip lights are barely visible ...

Postby Thorsten » Sun Sep 29, 2019 4:55 am

As i sayed previously, the view direction doesn't matter because a bug in FG since 2018.


If I remember correctly there's something wrong with the direction of these lights in the scenery - as the PAPI shows (which runs over the same code) directionality as such is working in the shader.

But scenery-side problems are very resilient (we'd need to re-generate scenery) - so a decision was made to de-activate directionality for the problematic lights till the scenery thing is addressed.
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Re: The landing strip lights are barely visible ...

Postby WoodSTokk » Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:20 pm

Thorsten wrote in Sun Sep 29, 2019 4:55 am:If I remember correctly there's something wrong with the direction of these lights in the scenery - as the PAPI shows (which runs over the same code) directionality as such is working in the shader.

But scenery-side problems are very resilient (we'd need to re-generate scenery) - so a decision was made to de-activate directionality for the problematic lights till the scenery thing is addressed.

The only problem i know off are multible placed taxiway edge lights (blue lights).
Have you a scenery tile or airport in mind witch have a problem with the direction?
If i have spare time i will examine the scenery file.
I can repair the multible placed light problem, but dont saw other problems.
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Re: The landing strip lights are barely visible ...

Postby Thorsten » Sun Sep 29, 2019 2:13 pm

Sorry - I distinctly remember discussing this with Stuart and switching directionality off for a number of lights because the normal was not well oriented - but I can't recall any specific details on what airport or tile.
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Re: The landing strip lights are barely visible ...

Postby WoodSTokk » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:12 pm

Thorsten wrote in Sun Sep 29, 2019 2:13 pm:Sorry - I distinctly remember discussing this with Stuart and switching directionality off for a number of lights because the normal was not well oriented - but I can't recall any specific details on what airport or tile.

I think i have found the discussion. https://sourceforge.net/p/flightgear/mailman/message/33371345/
This discussion goes back to february 2015. But i have a FG version 2016.4.4 (if i remember correctly) on a old computer, where the light direction works.
The problems are the taxiwaylights (the blue edge lights) that have a direction straight up.
I think, if we only exclude the blue lights (and potentialy the green lights) and activate the direction for all other lights, we should have a nicer look.
One problem that i see are the green lights at the runway threshold. As far as I know, the threshold use the same lights as the taxiways does (defined in the btg files).

~~~ one minute later ~~~

No, thats two different lights.
The runway threshold lights are deffined as 'RWY_GREEN_LIGHTS'.
The taxiway center lights are deffined as 'RWY_GREEN_TAXIWAY_LIGHTS'.
So we can exclude 'RWY_GREEN_TAXIWAY_LIGHTS' and 'RWY_BLUE_TAXIWAY_LIGHTS'.
All other lights should use the direction (vector).

As a sidenote:
I have opened a ticket for 6 months about this problem, but without reaction. Thanks to you, Thorsten, to enlights me.
But there is also another problem described in the ticket https://sourceforge.net/p/flightgear/codetickets/2116/.
ALS doesn't show the animated lights (sequenced flasher and pulsing lights) if 'Use point sprites for runway lights' isn't set.
Is there a quick fix or a massive code rewrite?
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