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TDZ precision markings

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TDZ precision markings

Postby legoboyvdlp » Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:40 pm

Hi,
I have been making a custom scenery for Jersey. However, it seems the latest toolchain doesn't make touchdown markings as the runway is blank - can anyone verify?

Image

The airport in question uses Precision (UK) type - maybe that isn't supported yet?

Also, the approach lights in terms of their elevation, well... Image
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Re: TDZ precision markings

Postby SurferTim » Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:55 pm

Your lights are probably based on the field elevation. I notice you have a small cliff at the end of the runway, and the lights are at the same elevation.

You may be able to use D-ECHO's solution with --max-slope to allow the airport to conform to the terrain (sometimes with not-very-good results), or even my solution of "bulldozing" your field.
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Re: TDZ precision markings

Postby legoboyvdlp » Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:09 am

No - the cliff is meant to be there, (although in fact I believe it's a concrete retaining wall, not ground as it is here) - however your solution may be useful to minimize the cliffs around the boundary to the south and north :)
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Re: TDZ precision markings

Postby SurferTim » Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:48 am

If there is a cliff (retaining wall) there, and the lights are on the same elevation as the runway without using --max-slope, then the only way would be to "bulldoze" the airport grounds to the correct elevations, then use --max-slope to match the airport to the graded airport property. That was what D-ECHO and I did at St Barth to match the airport gradient to the landscape.

I presume the approach lights are supposed to be at ground level (lower than they are now), correct?

Would you like me to try grading the airport property level for you? I can grade it to 84 meters, then drop the grading a meter or two where the approach lights are. My resolution on "bulldozing" is 90 meters, the limitation of the low-res hgt files.
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Re: TDZ precision markings

Postby D-ECHO » Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:32 am

About the approach lighting: It seems the runway end you're having problems with is 08 (09). Looking at google maps and the AIP data (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Jerse ... 4d-2.13125 and http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadbasic ... -06-20.pdf page 7), it seems the approach lighting does not go farther than the airport's boundary, so there simply is no lighting outside

Also, I think in places where the approach lighting continues, it's usually at the same level as the runway for visual consistency, thus meaning being on poles in case there is a cliff or slope

(cross-posted from Discord, in case someone's interested here as well)
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Re: TDZ precision markings

Postby SurferTim » Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:00 pm

D-ECHO wrote in Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:32 am:About the approach lighting: It seems the runway end you're having problems with is 08 (09). Looking at google maps and the AIP data (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Jerse ... 4d-2.13125 and http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadbasic ... -06-20.pdf page 7), it seems the approach lighting does not go farther than the airport's boundary, so there simply is no lighting outside

Also, I think in places where the approach lighting continues, it's usually at the same level as the runway for visual consistency, thus meaning being on poles in case there is a cliff or slope

(cross-posted from Discord, in case someone's interested here as well)

How lazy of me! I did not check the airport data, nor did I take a jump seat ride into the airport. The part you want to see is about 3 minutes in. I do not see the approach lighting you are installing.
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Re: TDZ precision markings

Postby legoboyvdlp » Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:38 pm

If there is a cliff (retaining wall) there, and the lights are on the same elevation as the runway without using --max-slope, then the only way would be to "bulldoze" the airport grounds to the correct elevations, then use --max-slope to match the airport to the graded airport property. That was what D-ECHO and I did at St Barth to match the airport gradient to the landscape.


If you want to that would be good. I'm not quite sure what needs to be done but if you could try and match the airport to the surroundings (leaving a cliff at the 09 end as seen in the video) that should be fine.
I'll upload the files to Dropbox for you.
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Re: TDZ precision markings

Postby legoboyvdlp » Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:10 pm

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Re: TDZ precision markings

Postby SurferTim » Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:22 pm

I can't create scenery. It is a Ubuntu thing apparently.

I'll grade the airport and post the hgt file for you. Give me an hour or so.

Edit: Here is the hgt file with the grading.
http://www.prolectron.com/flightgear/N49W003.hgt

If the cliff at the west end of the runway (or anywhere) isn't correct, let me know which way to go. I can change the elevations in 90 meter squares.

Here is the area I graded. It is the rectangle in light blue/green. The elevations are in meters.
Image
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Re: TDZ precision markings

Postby legoboyvdlp » Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:03 pm

Ok - thanks.

I think that removes the runway slope, though if the airport is all the same elevation. Maybe you could use this chart to adjust it to make the runway still sloped?

http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/pamsligh ... GJJ_2-1_en
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Re: TDZ precision markings

Postby SurferTim » Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:11 pm

I get a forbidden on the link. I can slope it. Even to slope it, I would start level, and work from there.

The airport data shows a 1 foot threshold elevation difference between rwy08 (270') and rwy26 (271'). 84 meters is as close as I can come.

Is the outline ok?

Edit: Is the runway bulged in the center? What elevation does it have midfield? Or am I not getting the axis of the slope correct. The ramp (which I used for the altitude) is 84 meters. The runway would be 82 meters. Is that the slope you mean?
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Re: TDZ precision markings

Postby legoboyvdlp » Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:27 pm

Not really. It slopes in the center - search NATS EGJJ and look for the airport chart, not sure why that link isn't working. There's a bulge at each end of the runway with a bit of a dip or level bit in the center. It's about a seven foot difference overall.
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Re: TDZ precision markings

Postby SurferTim » Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:16 pm

OK, rise near the middle. I can take it from 84 meters in the eastern 2/3 to 82 meters on each end. Is that all?
Here it is: http://www.prolectron.com/flightgear/N49W003.hgt
Let me know if that is the correct size.

Edit: It isn't a dip in the center. It is a rise in the center. The highest point is 2/3 down rwy08 at 277 feet (84 meters). Each end is 82 meters.
Link to the airport data
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Re: TDZ precision markings

Postby legoboyvdlp » Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:07 am

There is a bulge at each touchdown zone - as far as I remember one of 4 feet and one of 7 feet. Thank you! I will try this.
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Re: TDZ precision markings

Postby SurferTim » Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:02 am

I went by the airport data provided.
http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadbasic ... -12-06.pdf
http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadbasic ... -06-20.pdf

Edit: If you have any documentation that shows otherwise, I'll be happy to check it out.
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