wlbragg wrote in Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:31 am: if you succeed, well THANKS!
No, if you "succeed" why can't you ever document what you did so I can easily use it. That's the point.
The "THANKS" would be coming from the core-dev-team (if there was one). Any rant from outsiders could be gently ignored....
Thorsten wrote in Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:40 am:Very important: NOT calling somebody names does NOT mean that you do not attack somebody.
Hans - you may be surprised - but I'm not a saint, I'm merely trying to be fair.
You will see me stay civilized when I am confronted with unreasonable demands, rude words etc. You will not get me to smile and do appeasement and help those people as far as possible - I will express my displeasure in a civilized way - and that's all such people will ever get from me till they change their tune.
I think the main problem in your communication is that you treat other people like they were children. Or lightly retarded. You might find yourself civilized since you do not use strong language.
Thorsten, NOBODY expects you to smile or do appeasement. Please try doing nothing when confronted with something you consider an unreasonable demand. Just try it. I promise again, it does not hurt! Why do you feel you have to express your displeasure all the time? Have a nice cup of tea, eat some salmiakki and relax.
I believe a community project should always strive to try to find new people trying new things.
Yes. So that brings us to full circle to the beginning of this thread - why is 'if you want it, you'll have to code it yourself, nobody opposes this but none of the active developers is interested' considered so offensive then? It explicitly encourages someone new to try new things. There's no 'won't happen' at all involved here.
"if you want it, you'll have to code it yourself, nobody opposes this but none of the active developers is interested" is offensive because
a) "if you want it, you'll have to code it yourself" sounds an awful lot like "go and f*** yourself", even I am sure you do not mean it that way.
b) "nobody opposes this" and "none of the active developers is interested" are kind of contradictory. Maybe not for you, but for most other people.
c) You are dividing into active developers and....well what? "The rest"? For most people reading this feels like being excluded. Again: Maybe you do not feel that way, I just write what I am pretty sure the majority of grown up and intelligent people "get" when reading this.
Generally the problem it is not always WHAT you say, it is very often only HOW you say it.
Would be an interesting experiment that you send me a post you would like to post before you post it. I rewrite it so that _I_ think it has the same information but is not offending. We post my version and see what happens.
portreekid wrote in Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:00 pm:hans05 wrote in Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:18 am:@portreekid:
Before Reinhold Messner and Peter Habeler ascended Mt. Everest without supplemental oxygen, ALL of the climbers and physicians predicted that they will die since the prevailing understanding was that human beings can not survive with that little oxygen. So you had thousands of 25+ years experienced climbers and doctors proven wrong.
I believe a community project should always strive to try to find new people trying new things. I repeat: If they fail it was their own decision. It is always possible to communicate doubts but still leave an open minded tolerant impression (see Richards post).
And IF in the current core-dev-team there is nobody who is interested in doing XY, that is NO reason to communicate in a "will-never-happen" style. You should radiate the message "If you are interested please join our team and give it a go. If you fail you learned a lot, if you succeed, well THANKS!".
That is right. But if doctors and climbers wouldn't have voiced their concern? Then it wouldn't have been an informed descision. I believe it is more beneficial new contributers are guided towards quick wins that will motivate them to do more in the future. Not all are into learning by hitting walls. Regarding "core-dev-team" they seem to be pretty elusive. Haven't met them yet. Just lots of people using glue and shoe string to build a wonderful awe inspiring Flightsim.
If doctors and climbers would have voiced their concern but still would have kept an open mind and be tolerant, they might have SUPPORTED the project anyways. They could have organized an expedition for Messner and Habeler and see what comes out of it. In the end the two did the ascent more or less without support in alpine style (as opposed to expedition style). For me that is comparable to some people deciding to fork FlightGear because they are so disappointed by what the non-existent-dev-core-team-and-if-that-was-true-who-has-commit-rights-to-the-source-code does -or doesn't do- that they rather have a go themselves.
Is that what you want? Really?