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USS Nimitz Supercarrier

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Re: USS Nimitz Supercarrier

Postby mhab » Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:24 am

Tried the newest script
--> no more error messages with export
Whole model is upside down now in AC3D

About what I need to do about materials before export I don't understand.
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Re: USS Nimitz Supercarrier

Postby Necolatis » Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:37 am

Hmm, I will look into that.

For now, when you export just set export options: "Y up" and "Z forward", think that solves it (if I understand correct what is forward in AC3D).
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Re: USS Nimitz Supercarrier

Postby mhab » Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:34 pm

Hello

Sorry to say, but my excitement to run off with this task is a bit less than in the beginning :(

1) Necolatis knows how to properly prepare the blend file and how to export it to ac so it can be used. I don't.
@Necolatis: If you like please go ahead with making the Nimitz-HD usable in FG

EDIT:2) The model exterior is very nice,but it doesn't seem to have interior
FG carriers have a lower deck hangar, and need it in order to make elevators useful to get down below deck
missing interior was a problem of wrong/incomplete ac export

3) Elevators, JBDs, etc are not modelled independently as it seems to me, so there is way more to do than just animate the model

So to me this seems more like a 50-100 h job than 10h as estimated by karla
(I guess I would need at least 10h of Blender training before I even get a proper export, already spent 3-4h with very limited result)

As for me I would prefer to beef up the existing Vinson carrier by reusing things from the Nimitz- HD version.
The FG Vinson is very well detailed, and look what goes on below deck on Vinson.
It could profit a lot from more details and the very well done texture of Nimitz-HD

Sorry for this hard analysis, but I didn't expect to start lots of modelling work.

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Last edited by mhab on Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: USS Nimitz Supercarrier

Postby Necolatis » Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:57 pm

I have done some work, getting a good export, some details still needs done.

I agree, there could be some hours in this, especially if you want the hangar bays also.

Beside from getting a good export, I don't think I will be the one animating it and doing that stuff.
But hopefully somebody will step up, cause its a very nice model.
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Re: USS Nimitz Supercarrier

Postby mhab » Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:23 pm

I see.
Once you are satisfied with the export, would you mind to offer it as a download in some way ?
I will, by no chance, use blender any time soon and would prefer to start from the ac file in AC3D ...

B.T.W. In FG sense Nimitz and Eisenhower only differ by the CVN number and also Vinson is just a more detailed version of the same carrier type.
So once you have one good carrier you have three with minimum effort.
As I see it, Nimitz and Eisenhower still hang around in their low detailed version for historic reasons and for slow machines.

P.S. Thanks for investing in the Blender export script

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Re: USS Nimitz Supercarrier

Postby Necolatis » Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:44 pm

Alright. :)
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Re: USS Nimitz Supercarrier

Postby Necolatis » Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:02 pm

Okay, here is the exported AC file and textures, let me know if anything is off.
Notice that some objects are hidden, and that's a feature of newer Inivis AC3D, so if your using an old AC3D I don't know how it will parse those. (let me know if they give you trouble)

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B49qi ... VRjbjJ0cVk
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Re: USS Nimitz Supercarrier

Postby karla » Sun Mar 12, 2017 4:50 pm

Hey Necolatis, that's quick work. I trust you guys will get her embedded in FG without too much trouble. If you wish to change her name - Harry S Truman CVN-75 for example - let me know and I will provide the layered texture files as .xcf or .psd.

Good Luck
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Re: USS Nimitz Supercarrier

Postby Octal450 » Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:16 pm

Nice work!!!!
Waste of time. Goodbye forever.
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Re: USS Nimitz Supercarrier

Postby mhab » Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:14 pm

@Necolatis
Thanks for the ac export.
A quick check with AC3D 7.3.4 gave very good results.
Only problem I saw so far seem to be with FLOLS meatballs red/yellow, but that is not important.
I don't see a reason why not to recicle the vinson flols.

I don't notice errors in AC3D with import so your concern about "invisible" objects remains a bit misterious to me.
I can hide or lock objects in AC3D but I don't get hidden objects after the import.

@karla: As it seems to me for now I would be the one to work on the new carrier.
There are pros and cons with the new model
pro: fantastic details and textures
con: no inside/lower deck, no independent elevators, etc.

It will not be possible to support all FG carrier standard functionality without more or less additional modelling work.

So I would appreciate to realize it step by step as a NEW carrier and Harry S Truman CVN-75 would be a nice addition.
Please make the textures for CVN-75 available as suggested.

The roadmap for Harry S Truman CVN-75 could be:

Basic integration
- catapults/steam defined
--> i.e. take off possible
- traps defined
--> i.e. landing possible
- FLOLS working
--> approach supported
- radar antennae animated

Advanced animations Outside
- JBDs animated
--> model cutting work needed
- elevators moveable
--> model cutting work needed
- doors moveable (not in any official FG carriers yet)
--> model cutting work needed

EDIT:
Advanced work Inside
- lower deck details (copy from vinson, adapt texture details)
--> full integration, with the possibility to use elevators and lower deck

EDIT: turns out with latest export there is also a good lower deck available.

And then ...
- lighting support
- deck night lighting

If nobody else is in high power, I will go ahead and we will see ... :)

Mike-DE
Last edited by mhab on Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: USS Nimitz Supercarrier

Postby Necolatis » Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:26 pm

Image

As you can see in above picture, some parts of blastdefs and meatballs are hidden. (eye is greyed out)
If you don't see that you must have an old version of AC3D.

Maybe you should wait with working on it then, till somebody comes along that wants to separate the elevators and make lower decks. (and many people I think prefer to work in Blender) So maybe just wait a bit, with your work on it, unless you want to do the modeling yourself.
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Re: USS Nimitz Supercarrier

Postby Necolatis » Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:37 pm

Besides its only missing the front lower deck, the aft deck is there. Thats a small thing to model I think.
Separating the elevators does take some experience with knifing tools I think, but is probably also a small thing, for those that know how to do that.
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Re: USS Nimitz Supercarrier

Postby mhab » Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:20 pm

Yes I have an old version of AC3D.
Didn't run across any AC3D lacking functionality until this case.
Hidden objects are definitely incorrect in my version.
Not sure if I want to spend the money on an upgrade for now.

Maybe I should quit job and spend the saved time on learning blender ? :shock: :roll:
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Re: USS Nimitz Supercarrier

Postby mhab » Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:58 am

On second thought about AC3D ...

see AC3D 8: http://www.inivis.com/ac3d8.html
New Material Editor and upgraded AC3D file format
The new version of the AC3D file format includes multiline materials that can have text included (in the same way that objects can have text attached).
To enable saving of the new format and editing of the new material data, the setting below must be enabled (File->Settings).
Note that by default, this setting is OFF and AC3D 8 will save V11 (0xb) files but in future versions of AC3D, the default will be V12.

The .ac file format is widely supported so for full compatibility for sending .ac files to others, and until other developers have updated their AC3D file loaders, you may want to ensure that “Export AC3D v12 file” is not selected.


The documentation about ac file format on Inivis website is from 2003, see https://www.inivis.com/ac3d/man/ac3dfileformat.html

I havn't noticed anything about updates in FG for newer ac file format handling ... maybe I missed out on that ?
If not, I'm wondering what FG does with the objects I cannot handle in AC3D 7.3.4
If FG doesn't support newer ac format features, what's the use in having new features exported to ac files ?

Maybe somebody can bring me up to date on this context ?

Thanks
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Re: USS Nimitz Supercarrier

Postby Necolatis » Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:16 pm

I looked in the OpenSceneGraph code that flightgear uses to load AC3D. And it does not seem to know how to read the new fileformat.

On the other hand the blender AC3D script does know that (the newest version on branch). So you can always load and save it through there, to get a format FG can read.

The use of exporting newer featues, is that it might ease your editing of it in the AC3D program, that atleast was my thinking. Its an option in the script if that should be done. For example the blender importer also support the older subdiv token, but Flightgear does not.

And btw. I just wrote an updated version of the fileformat guide here: https://sites.google.com/view/ac3dfileformat/home
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