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USS Nimitz Supercarrier

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Re: USS Nimitz Supercarrier

Postby mhab » Sat Sep 02, 2017 5:35 pm

Small reminder for mssing cruise ship in truman scenario ...
The truman_demo.xml in next branch refers to a completely new cruise ship, which is not yet committed to next branch.
Also the flightplan for the cruiseship, which lets it cruise from Kalaupapa to Honolulu ;-)
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Re: USS Nimitz Supercarrier

Postby Thorsten » Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:27 pm

As I said in some other place - magic I can do, miracles may take a while.

I still haven't left the Truman - as of today the various wakes have been fixed (*not commenting on the wisdom to have something in 'Generic' which refers explicitly to Vinson in the original files...*) for all lighting conditions and made to play nice with the wave code.

FYI: The particle system is *crap* - if you have

Code: Select all
      <emissive>true</emissive>
      <lighting>true</lighting>


inside, you get an odd color change dependent on view direction because the particles evaluate a specular reflection. Rather you want both to false, but later assign /rendering/scene/diffuse/red to all three color channels (if you have a white color) so that it properly fades when the sun goes down.
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Re: USS Nimitz Supercarrier

Postby Thorsten » Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:10 am

Small reminder for mssing cruise ship in truman scenario ...


Okay, maybe I'm dumb - what's the relation between the cruise ship and the Truman battle group? Can't this be packaged as a separate AI scenario?
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Re: USS Nimitz Supercarrier

Postby Thorsten » Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:04 am

Actually, I don't think we can include the Sun Princess in FG. The licensing note says

Code: Select all
 Model created by Herminio Nieves @2014
  published in *obj format on http://tf3dm.com/ website.

  Original comment:
    for comercial and non comercial use.
    includes everything you see,do not resale or bundle in
    other packages.format in wavefront,see renders for reference,if you use
    Daz 3d you will be able to upload the product loaded with texures.remember
    to decompress first then import the decompress file.
    non movable parts.It is appreciated if credits are present,if you modify this model
    please do not put it for sales it is a violation of copyright you can contact me at
    info@hns3d.com or nievesherminio@yahoo.com or nieves_herminio@yahoo.com
    Visit us at hns3d.com or herminionieves.selz.com


The relevant bit seems to be

please do not put it for sales it is a violation of copyright

We have no way of guaranteeing that and in fact by GPL licensing we give permission to sell the model - which is not in line of the original terms.

So either you can produce a note by the author of the model that he's fine with inclusion in FG, or the model has to stay off the repository.
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Re: USS Nimitz Supercarrier

Postby mhab » Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:25 am

I tried to contact him weeks ago under all email adresses. No reply recieved.
The cruise ship is in because the battlegroup is a copy of vinson which also has a cruise ship.
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Re: USS Nimitz Supercarrier

Postby mhab » Sun Sep 03, 2017 12:27 pm

Thanks for pointing this out to me. Didn't know GPL allows selling other peoples' work.

As a consequence I removed the Sun Princess from the gitlab repo and replaced it in truman_demo scenario with a link to the "old" cruise-ship which I had upgraded for waves/wakes.

Of course there is no logic in having a cruise ship in a battle group.
So please decide yourself to remove or replace it from the truman scenario.

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Re: USS Nimitz Supercarrier

Postby bugman » Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:47 pm

For the licensing policy, please see:

Specifically for FGData, you can only use GPLv2+ compatible licensed content, i.e. those licences listed in green by the FSF at:

Any type of author statement that is not one of these standard licences is simply not compatible - as officially determined by the FSF - and hence cannot be used. Ideally the licence would be GPLv2+, or CC0 and Public Domain content.

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Re: USS Nimitz Supercarrier

Postby Thorsten » Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:11 am

So please decide yourself to remove or replace it from the truman scenario.


I think I'll remove it.

It might not be a bad idea to have a 'cruise ships' scenario which populates the waters around Hawaii with a couple of luxury liners - but that's unrelated.
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Re: USS Nimitz Supercarrier

Postby Thorsten » Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:18 am

... and wakes should be back on the Truman and all escort ships.

Image
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Re: USS Nimitz Supercarrier

Postby mhab » Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:52 pm

Some feedback on carrier elevator speed.

I had changed the speed of the carrier elevators for Nimitz class carriers, because the original implementation in FG kernel is way too slow.
I used the door implementation of FG, watched several Youtube videos and chose the speed accordingly to be 15 sec.

Disadvantage compared to FG kernel implementation:
The elevator prop controlled by kernel does a perfect match to real elevators, which don't move linear but accelerate smoothly in the beginning and decelerate smoothly at the end.
I didn't change the door system for the price of a rather rough start and stop of the elevators.

Now I saw the elevator time for Truman was increased to 30 sec, which is about double the real time taken.
I can only guess this was done to allow less g-force on the aircraft when the elevator starts/stops, or did I understand something wrong in current checked in version of Truman ?

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Re: USS Nimitz Supercarrier

Postby Thorsten » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:59 am

As I've explained elsewhere:

The aircraft FDM runs at FDM rate (120 Hz usually). The elevators move like all other animation at framerate because they're part of the graphics code (which may be 20 Hz or lower on some systems).

This means that from the POV of the FDM, the elevator is not a continuous movement, but a series of 'kicks' every six frames. These kicks lead to sudden compressions of the gear struts - with associated behavior of the plane - it'll bounce around etc.

The kicks are going to be harder the lower your framerate is and the faster the animation movement is. If you have a decent framerate (I actually get 120 Hz on the carrier) then none of this is a problem - if you have a weaker system, it will be. I don't have any test data on how bad it really is with low framerates, but ground handling on carriers is problematic already.
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Re: USS Nimitz Supercarrier

Postby mhab » Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:53 pm

Another piece I can't see on the screenshots are the wires which hold the elevators. Any particular reason they are missing ?
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Re: USS Nimitz Supercarrier

Postby Thorsten » Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:02 am

* deep breath *

I've been working 2-3 hours each day for the last week on the carriers. That includes going through your package, but also discussing with James about changing the format of the AI control GUI, finding out what the issue with JSBSim and carriers is and what we want to do about it, etc.

It's not a finished job by any means (although it's now in a state that'll do for the release) and I've never said it's finished.

I'm not sure what you imagine - a copy/commit of the package? That'd have given us a license violation already. Maybe you feel that me going through every file trying to see what it does and eliminating the animation error messages in the process is too slow. Yet - it may be your work that I commit, but once I do so it's my responsibility - any license issue or breakage is on me. So I want to know what it is I'm doing.

Maybe you still feel it all should work faster and it shouldn't take so long to go through everything you had functioning already... In this case, let me come back to my earlier comments - the process is a lot faster if organized in a series of merge requests, with discussions on how to do things before each relevant step - a huge monolithic package that needs to be disentangled sure slows things down.

I frankly have no idea about the wires, they cause no errors and that's all I need to declare this ready for the imminent release - the details can be sorted out when I resume work on the carriers afterwards.
Last edited by Thorsten on Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: USS Nimitz Supercarrier

Postby bugman » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:21 am

The git SCM system is perfect for this type of piece-by-piece importing. Mhab, if you had a copy of the FGData repository and all your changes in a dedicated branch (say "truman/r1", "truman/r2", and up), you could then regularly rebase to the "next" branch. I.e. this work flow:

  • Thorsten imports one piece into FGData.
  • If the current branch is pushed to the remote, create a new branch incrementing the "r" number (e.g. git checkout -b truman/r5).
  • You rebase your local branch to "next".
  • Look at what is left - the residual set of changes.
As this progresses, the changes in your branch will become smaller and smaller. You will be able to then instantly see all differences between FGData next and your changes. This is what git is for.

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Re: USS Nimitz Supercarrier

Postby mhab » Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:09 am

Hello

After a while I found the motivation to check carrier state in FG 2018 and picked up where I left ...

As it was decided to merge only a little part of my carrier enhancements to FG 2017.3 (and later), - i.e. more or less just the Truman model - I continue my work in parallel to FG in my gitlab repo.

After I understood the concept of the new AI dialog I decided to add a click animation to the towers, as this is quite useful, but I stay with a carrier specific dialog (as the new AI dialog is a carrier dialog anyhow).

See some screenshots of an improved carrier control dialog in FG 2018 ... (click to enlarge)
Image Image Image

Remark: I re-added the dumped light grey style to my local FG version, therefore I have three different styles of screenshots :wink:

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