Board index FlightGear Development Scenery

Lyon Saint Exupery Scenery Project

Questions and discussion about enhancing and populating the FlightGear world.

Re: Lyon Saint Exupery Scenery Project

Postby legoboyvdlp » Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:14 pm

If you think the restrictions could be expanded or lifted, make it known on the Dev List.

Sure - would be glad to.


V12 wrote in Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:48 pm:daweed :
With i5 2550K and GTX750 Ti I had 8-10 fps in 5000 feets over Paris. After replacement of the died GTX750 with GTX1060, fps is same :(


Not so sure what this has to do with the topic here but that surely shows your CPU is limiting performance in Paris (loading all the models?)

I assume you checked the obvious - like FG is actually using your card and not any integrated card.






In this case @daweed since your texture is tiling maybe you could cut it by 50% (crop it) so detail isn't lost? It looks like it seamless so should be reasonably easy to do, it will still look the same, only the uvmapping will be different?
User avatar
legoboyvdlp
 
Posts: 7169
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:28 am
Callsign: YV-LEGO
Version: 2018.3.1
OS: Windows 10 HP

Re: Lyon Saint Exupery Scenery Project

Postby daweed » Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:29 pm

legoboyvdlp wrote in Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:14 pm:In this case @daweed since your texture is tiling maybe you could cut it by 50% (crop it) so detail isn't lost? It looks like it seamless so should be reasonably easy to do, it will still look the same, only the uvmapping will be different?


This could be a compromise, but even then, some details are lost.
My UV mapping is not a problem, doing the work twice does not scare me, but redoing it to degrade the thing ... I do not really see the interest, again I repeat that the size of the png file is 500 KB, for a static model of 1.3 MB
Linux Mint 18.3
AMD FX 4300 Quad-Core Black Edition|20 Go RAMGeForce GTX 750 Ti
FG Interface
Lyon Saint Exupery Scenery

ATC on LFLL on Friday 19:00 UTC => 22:00 UTC
daweed
 
Posts: 328
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:45 am
Location: LFKP LFLL
Callsign: daweed
OS: Linux Mint 19.2

Re: Lyon Saint Exupery Scenery Project

Postby V12 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:57 pm

I visited LFLL :

Image
Fly high, fly fast - fly Concorde !
User avatar
V12
 
Posts: 1606
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:27 pm
Location: LZIB
Callsign: BAWV12

Re: Lyon Saint Exupery Scenery Project

Postby daweed » Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:18 pm

ok,
33 fps ? right that what i can read on the right down corner ?

If so that pretty good no ? [ but the TS scenery does not have the TGV Station, Fret Terminal and Jetways, but the custom scene can be downloaded in this thread ]
=> i am currious to see what will be your FPS with them !

Here is a link to custom scenery package

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1lAf2P ... FfY9o5Z5Vv
Linux Mint 18.3
AMD FX 4300 Quad-Core Black Edition|20 Go RAMGeForce GTX 750 Ti
FG Interface
Lyon Saint Exupery Scenery

ATC on LFLL on Friday 19:00 UTC => 22:00 UTC
daweed
 
Posts: 328
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:45 am
Location: LFKP LFLL
Callsign: daweed
OS: Linux Mint 19.2

Re: Lyon Saint Exupery Scenery Project

Postby V12 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:23 pm

Yes, this is LFLL, it is OK. I will test ASAP.

EDIT :
No significant change, still around 30 fps.
Fly high, fly fast - fly Concorde !
User avatar
V12
 
Posts: 1606
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:27 pm
Location: LZIB
Callsign: BAWV12

Re: Lyon Saint Exupery Scenery Project

Postby V12 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:36 pm

daweed wrote in Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:02 pm:
Simulator are heavy, rendering need powerfull hardware if you want to see something that look like correct, that a fact

I have 20 Gb RAM and that does not help too


Yes, simulators are heavy and hungry for CPU power. But check Your CPU load, is more than 90% ?
Fly high, fly fast - fly Concorde !
User avatar
V12
 
Posts: 1606
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:27 pm
Location: LZIB
Callsign: BAWV12

Re: Lyon Saint Exupery Scenery Project

Postby BecOzIcan » Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:52 pm

daweed wrote in Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:32 am:Hello

TGV Station and Terminal Fret will not be on TerraSync , they have been rejected for 'too large' texture.


Can anyone point me to any other limitations and or recommendations than the ones stated at https://scenery.flightgear.org/contribute.php ?
I could not find in the forums or the wiki any trace of a hard rule to limit textures to 256x256 pixels.

EDIT: Also keen to get confirmation PNGs Texture files are preferred to directly colouring the material in the AC file.

I am finalising a large Terminal model with a 1.635 KB ac file and a 1024x4096 px texture of 1,159 KB

My plan, ahead of terrasync submission was to
- Break down the ac model into independent smaller ac files (rooftop, gates etc), each of less than the recommended 500 kb
- Keep a common texture file but simply compress it. I can get my 1024x4096 px file down to 381 KB using tinypng.com

Advice welcome

Cheers
Ian
Current Projects: AI Traffic, Models & Liveries
User avatar
BecOzIcan
 
Posts: 1063
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:43 pm
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Version: 2.12
OS: Win10

Re: Lyon Saint Exupery Scenery Project

Postby daweed » Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:40 pm

Hello BecOzlcan,

My TGV station model with 1.3 Mo seems to not be the problem [ as said in the reject mail, my texture is the problem ...] but as we have stated, there is no limit information on the scenery web site and i have push in the past texture sized 2048x1024 ... don't know why now it's forbiden [ a real reason ] and examples VicMar link in his previous post show model sized to 1024x1024 ... so i really don't understand, but i think you texture files sized to more than 1 Mo will not be accepted too.

the scenery website statement is model sized to 1/2 Mo max ... so you should be in the range with 1.6 Mo

Regarding the texture file vs colring the model ... well, the UV mapping exist for that , that will be weird if we cannot use it ... but it's up to you to choose your way

I'm not sure that with a simple coloring you will get something detailed, look at the objects highlighted by VicMar by following the links in his last message, the first 3 models are without texture file, but although they have beautiful achitecture I find the buildings poor in the display [report to the color on the facade, by detail on the windows for example]

The only rule actually is that texture size need to be a power of 2
Linux Mint 18.3
AMD FX 4300 Quad-Core Black Edition|20 Go RAMGeForce GTX 750 Ti
FG Interface
Lyon Saint Exupery Scenery

ATC on LFLL on Friday 19:00 UTC => 22:00 UTC
daweed
 
Posts: 328
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:45 am
Location: LFKP LFLL
Callsign: daweed
OS: Linux Mint 19.2

Re: Lyon Saint Exupery Scenery Project

Postby VicMar » Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:59 pm

Can anyone point me to any other limitations and or recommendations than the ones stated at https://scenery.flightgear.org/contribute.php ?
I could not find in the forums or the wiki any trace of a hard rule to limit textures to 256x256 pixels.
That's because there isn't one. I only suggest things modellers might want to try rather than have a model excluded for a simple reason.

There are some models in the DB which have large textures, but I can only say there are often times when I'm in hospital and someone has to cover for me. I also have made a few mistakes and hit the submit button by mistake and allowed one to slip through and I usually email the modeller and ask him/her to make the necessary changes.

I know you'll all mock me if I say 'I'm only following orders" but that's all I'm doing. I have to use my common sense which tells me things like "High density modelling in an area like an airport needs to limit processing as much as possible to protect fps".

If you can think of a better way of doing that than limiting file sizes, please give your ideas to the Dev-List. I've already confessed to my limited and outdated computer abilities, so start suggesting rather than slamming home every wrong word or idea I mention. I'm a friendly Dragon really, I mean modellers no harm.

If anyone would like to devote their free time to be an FG Validator, I wouldn't mind standing down as I have plenty of other things which drain my otherwise free time.

Vic
Time flies like an arrow
Fruit flies like a banana
User avatar
VicMar
 
Posts: 2059
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:53 pm
Location: Lancing. UK (EGKA)
Callsign: VicMar
Version: 2018.3.1
OS: OS X 10.12.6

Re: Lyon Saint Exupery Scenery Project

Postby BecOzIcan » Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:38 pm

Thanks VicMar.

Totally appreciate this is not easy to be the gatekeeper. Definitely, having clear set rules (whatever the reasoning behind them) would make your task easier by leaving no space for disagreement. This was the purpose of my query.

On that, I can't really get from your message what you define as a large texture -which would get rejected- if they are no hard limit set.

Also to clarify on AC models sizes, based on daweed reply to my post, should I read the rule found on the FG scenery website : "1/2 Mo max" as "from 1 to 2 MB max" or "half a MB max". It may be worth updating the page to clarify

Thanks again for your contribution and keep up the good work.

Cheers
Ian
Current Projects: AI Traffic, Models & Liveries
User avatar
BecOzIcan
 
Posts: 1063
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:43 pm
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Version: 2.12
OS: Win10

Re: Lyon Saint Exupery Scenery Project

Postby legoboyvdlp » Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:02 pm

@VicMar,

First of all my sincere apologies for somewhat overreacting to your post.

Definitely, having clear set rules (whatever the reasoning behind them) would make your task easier by leaving no space for disagreement.


I wholeheartedly endorse this.
User avatar
legoboyvdlp
 
Posts: 7169
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:28 am
Callsign: YV-LEGO
Version: 2018.3.1
OS: Windows 10 HP

Re: Lyon Saint Exupery Scenery Project

Postby daweed » Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:21 pm

seems there is no to do something good now, no way to be understood ...sad

This project can't be anymore distributed on TS as new elements have been rejected and doesn't comply to low resolution needed by TS

The Github Repo has been set to continue to improove the scenery, see first post of this thread

Regards

Daweed
Linux Mint 18.3
AMD FX 4300 Quad-Core Black Edition|20 Go RAMGeForce GTX 750 Ti
FG Interface
Lyon Saint Exupery Scenery

ATC on LFLL on Friday 19:00 UTC => 22:00 UTC
daweed
 
Posts: 328
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:45 am
Location: LFKP LFLL
Callsign: daweed
OS: Linux Mint 19.2

Re: Lyon Saint Exupery Scenery Project

Postby VicMar » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:56 am

seems there is no to do something good now, no way to be understood ...sad
No. It seems that you are intransigent. You cannot see you can be wrong and the way FG works at present doesn't agree with your reasoning.

The answer is simple: FG is Open Source so you can take it as it is and use it to create a completely new Flight Sim and include what you think is the correct way to do things.

Good Luck. I shall not be continuing to answer your emails.

Out. Vic
Time flies like an arrow
Fruit flies like a banana
User avatar
VicMar
 
Posts: 2059
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:53 pm
Location: Lancing. UK (EGKA)
Callsign: VicMar
Version: 2018.3.1
OS: OS X 10.12.6

Re: Lyon Saint Exupery Scenery Project

Postby legoboyvdlp » Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:34 am

@daweed,
if you crop it as such, surely the details will be preserved:

Image
User avatar
legoboyvdlp
 
Posts: 7169
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:28 am
Callsign: YV-LEGO
Version: 2018.3.1
OS: Windows 10 HP

Re: Lyon Saint Exupery Scenery Project

Postby daweed » Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:44 am

I didn't send any mail recently

I am not intransigent , u are not listening
it's the direct guillotine, we are the bad guy and you are the good, binary system. You command we have to obey, no discussion is possible

You are the one who decide, and didn't at any time any let me have any other choice

What you ask is to make my work ugly and to repeat one more time, all example you pointed me to look after is either with no texture file [ and so that not an example i can based on ], or with texture file sized to 1024x1024 u have accepted.

Enjoying the landscape as much as flying or controlling is important, what's more disappointing than landing or taking off on a pixelated scene, that's what you're asking for by limiting the resolution of the textures [and not just a little, the resolution was divided by 4]
What you are asking is that I degrade my own work after spending so much time, just so that the people with a small configuration can turn the scene, sorry, I can not follow you on this ground, I refuse to disfigure my work and I think that to run a simulator worthy of the name it takes a minimum configuration ... What is the next step, force people to run Flightgear on a 486 Dx2 66 ... the world ahead , the technology too, you have to live with its time, if the configuration of a pilote computer can not support a texture of 1024x1024 ... he must adapt, ask the scene creator to provide a faded trick has no interest and I actually thought you could at least understand that

VicMar wrote in Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:56 am:The answer is simple: FG is Open Source so you can take it as it is and use it to create a completely new Flight Sim and include what you think is the correct way to do things.


Stop with this type of argument, the simulator [ Flightgear ] is not in cause, FG is totally able to display 1024x1024 texture without any problem of frame rate as soon as the hardware needed is there. There no need to rebuild or improove the sim from this side, the problem is made by guy like you who think that flightgear should be able to run on raspberry pie .... and that ridiculous because this harware has not be made to run a full simulator software, as like a desk office computer to do some word, excel or other office program is not sized to run this kind of of heavy application as flightgear is.

The wiki itslef state about minimum requirement http://wiki.flightgear.org/Hardware_recommendations and theese recomandation are far away from a low config.

As it have been already stated here the software throught configuration can lower details and display, why should we make poor poly / texturing thing. ? Having good quality object does not make obligation to display them with full resolution, but if they are already in poor resolution will we have a sad and square world

You are the guy who didn't accept any compromise, i try and bring proof that what u ask is going kill the scene and i am pretty sure that u smart enought to understand that, once again there no interest to have a "minecraft" world to fly in

Finally as the gate keeper, you should be the interface between us and lead core dev [ as you said rules come from us ] and should feedback this type of problem to them, even if i doubt that they have any "time" to listen us for this kind of request.

@Lego, nope, give a try yesterday evening [ ie convert my texture to a 256x256 ] , going under 1024x1024 for resolution lead to lost detail such as door [ which does not look like anymore as door that will lead to degrade the model display.
The resolution asked is simply impossible to use, it need to understand that for a square a 4x4 , so 16 pixel [ as it is divided by 4 ] is replace by 1 ....
If i have time this evening, i will pushed a full model with the lower resolution asked here as example , terminal does not look like anymore to something that can identified as a terminal ...
Linux Mint 18.3
AMD FX 4300 Quad-Core Black Edition|20 Go RAMGeForce GTX 750 Ti
FG Interface
Lyon Saint Exupery Scenery

ATC on LFLL on Friday 19:00 UTC => 22:00 UTC
daweed
 
Posts: 328
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:45 am
Location: LFKP LFLL
Callsign: daweed
OS: Linux Mint 19.2

PreviousNext

Return to Scenery

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest