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LIPY airport - now less scary at night

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Re: LIPY airport

Postby Johan G » Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:43 pm

Please, make sure you find a way attribute the original author of the airport models when you finally submit them. ;)

Very nice of him to allow reusing it in this flight simulator. I am sure many will appreciate bot of your work. :D
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Re: LIPY airport

Postby bigstones » Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:28 pm

Johan G wrote in Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:43 pm:Please, make sure you find a way attribute the original author of the airport models when you finally submit them. ;)

I made a wiki page for LIPY and prepared a commented out section for the credits. Now I'll take a couple of screenshots from what's still on my hard disk, put them on the wiki and show it to the author, I'll tell him I'm going to publish an alpha release and will ask for an official authorization that I can copy and paste on the wiki.

Then I'll need some advice on optimization... It's not bad, but I believe it could improve. More on that later.
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Re: LIPY airport

Postby bigstones » Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:17 pm

I've added some screenshots to the wiki page. http://wiki.flightgear.org/Falconara_Ai ... ew_gallery

Here's one... higher resolution available.
Image

Please remember I'm not the author of the models, just the converter.
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Re: LIPY airport - added screenshots

Postby ludomotico » Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:22 pm

I like the refinery very much, and I believe it uses only models already available in terrasync. Am I right? I believe I'm going to shameless copy and paste that refinery into a couple of places :)

The models of the airport are gorgeous, of course. I wish I'd have that modeling skills.
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Re: LIPY airport - added screenshots

Postby bigstones » Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:34 pm

ludomotico wrote in Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:22 pm:I like the refinery very much, and I believe it uses only models already available in terrasync. Am I right? I believe I'm going to shameless copy and paste that refinery into a couple of places :)

The models of the airport are gorgeous, of course. I wish I'd have that modeling skills.

Yes the refinery is made piece by piece with the UFO, all shared models, and probably not one of them is properly aligned....

For the modeling skills, yeah I wish that too. Remember, it took him a year and he had the chance to use purposely taken pictures for texturing.
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Re: LIPY airport - added screenshots

Postby radi » Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:39 pm

Yes the refinery is made piece by piece with the UFO, all shared models, and probably not one of them is properly aligned....

See my sig. Haven't updates fgopt in years, but maybe it's useful to you.
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Re: LIPY airport - added screenshots

Postby bigstones » Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:20 pm

I'm very glad to announce the release of the first preview of LIPY.
Download link available on the wiki page.

Testing objectives:
- Try with Rembrandt both on and off;
- LOD and optimization (there are various .stg files inside the Objects/ directory, please test the performance with them);
- Realism of signs at the airports (especially LIPR, LIPY should be quite accurate);
- Any glitch with taxiways/taxi lines Bezier curves (i.e. overarched ends).
- Modelers: please open a couple of models and tell me if/how you can fix their axes, and simplify the object hierarchy without decentering the objects.

The optimization part might need a more focused thread, for its general interest (I hope). EDIT - here's the thread.
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Re: LIPY airport - added screenshots

Postby elgaton » Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:36 pm

First, congratulations for your work, it's really well done! I've found a couple of bugs though (also, I have tested the scenery for just an hour, I'll check it in more detail in the following days).

  1. Apparently (I have not reviewed the FlightGear source code, so please correct me if I'm mistaken) FG considers the parking positions relative to the origin of the airplane model (that is, the (0, 0, 0) point of the aircraft is over the position you define). In some airliners, like the 777-200ER shown here, the origin lies in the middle of the wings, causing the aircraft to be placed further than you intended it to be:
    Image
    I don't know, unfortunately, if this is the case for all models - if it's so, you should move the parking positions a little backwards.
  2. The billboard in the middle of the roundabout between the passenger and cargo terminals should say "thanks" and not "thank's":
    Image
  3. In some places (so far I have found only two near the cargo terminal) fences do not extend to the point you probably wanted them to do: namely, in the first photo the area marked in red from the right side of the fence to the outer fence (not shown in the photo as it's too thin) is unprotected, in the second one the area marked in red is big enough for a followme to slip through:
    Image
    Image
  4. I believe that in the following photo (taken near the apron) the marked part of the bend should feature a dashed white marking:
    Image
  5. Edge markings are missing, making it difficult to see if an aircraft is on a taxiway or not - refer to the official LIPY chart (especially to the "Lighting aids" map) or to satellite imagery to see where you should add them. (Caution - the chart lists R4, R5, R7 and R8 edge lights as out of order).
  6. In the intersection takeoff signs, "m" (for "meters") should be in lowercase to avoid confusion with taxiway designators (see this Jeppesen publication).
  7. Rembrandt lighting is missing - I have captured this screenshot with Rembrandt enabled and the time set to "Night". Light should come from the masts and the airport buildings:
    Image
  8. I'm not sure about this one - I noticed you used a double yellow line for the apron parkings. May I suggest using single lines instead to avoid confusion with edge markings?
Also, are CAT II/III holding points present in the real airport?

Do not this list discourage you - the rest is of excellent quality :wink: If you have questions, just ask.
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Re: LIPY airport - added screenshots

Postby bigstones » Thu May 01, 2014 1:41 pm

elgaton wrote in Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:36 pm:First, congratulations for your work, it's really well done! I've found a couple of bugs though (also, I have tested the scenery for just an hour, I'll check it in more detail in the following days).

Wow, I didn't expect such a thorough review! Thank you so much, I hope I'll be able to return the favor with LIPX.
  1. Parking positions: I placed them where there are markings in the real airport (and on AIP charts), and I expected planes to place their nose wheel there. I couldn't find instructions on that.
  2. "thank's": well, I know, that's how it is in the original model, but I guess I'll have to fix that if people go driving in the parking lot :)
  3. Fences: if you knew how I made them (I couldn't use the original ones), you'd be surprised they're so precise, especially the airport boundary one (I was). It's easy to fix them but it needs some guesswork (btw, the outer fence behind cargo area is not too thin, it's absent).
  4. Edge markings are almost totally absent, both in AIP charts and aerials. I should add them in the piece of taxiway going from the main apron to the aeroclub though. Luckily fog here is not the same as in Val Padana :)
  5. The upper case 'M' in the TORA sign is quite annoying indeed. The problem is that a lower case 'm' is not rendered! I could leave it and wait for lower case to be supported, but I thought that it wasn't such a problem if it's upper case. I also considered using 'MT'.
  6. Rembrandt and lightmaps are on the agenda.
  7. Double yellow lines: that's another wrong thing in FG or genapts. In WED, those are single yellow lines with black border (as they're on concrete), and I didn't "tag for the renderer".
  8. CATII/III holding lines: no, LIPY has CAT I ILS only on 22, so you're right doubting about them. Yet aerials show there's a black/yellow checkered line with some writings, maybe that signals the apron edge? I could use broken yellow, they're too long to make them as ground signs. Another kind of line I'm missing is the single red one. It seems we have them here in Italy, to mark parkings and safe zones.
I'll update the wiki with these points. Anyway right now my main concern is performance. I'm trying to optimize the rendering, but anything I do barely makes a difference if not worsen things, it's quite frustrating.

An example. I have made range animations such that objects for ~2000 surfaces in front of the terminal disappear. I suppose range animations cost the same whether their objects are shown or not, so the difference in FPS when moving into/out of the range should be all due to rendering 2000 less surfaces. Well, it makes absolutely no difference.

I'm trying to merge the more objects I can, I think it's < 66% now. No difference, and that's even if I don't use range animations! I confess I don't know what to do, other than remove objects. Right now I doubt even select animations would actually do anything, but of course I'll try (being able to simply sacrifice heaviest objects would still make the scenery enjoyable by everyone - me included!).

So, well, my question is: how is it going on your computer?
Here I have a dual core 1.6GHz, 1GHz bus, 8GB ram, Asus Nvidia 9800 GT, and with UFO and some Rembrandt shadow I can get as low as 18 FPS, but only a minute after loading. I aim at staying above 25 FPS.
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Re: LIPY airport - added screenshots

Postby psadro_gm » Thu May 01, 2014 2:02 pm

bigstones wrote in Thu May 01, 2014 1:41 pm:Double yellow lines: that's another wrong thing in FG or genapts. In WED, those are single yellow lines with black border (as they're on concrete), and I didn't "tag for the renderer".


Fixed April 17th : https://www.gitorious.org/fg/terragear/ ... bd15447190
The fix is in both master and scenery/ws2.0 - I'll look into getting Jenkins to start building scenery/ws2.0 branch, as master is unstable at the moment.
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Re: LIPY airport - added screenshots

Postby elgaton » Thu May 01, 2014 2:47 pm

bigstones wrote in Thu May 01, 2014 1:41 pm:Wow, I didn't expect such a thorough review! Thank you so much, I hope I'll be able to return the favor with LIPX.

Please do when it will be ready for final testing :wink:

bigstones wrote in Thu May 01, 2014 1:41 pm:Parking positions: I placed them where there are markings in the real airport (and on AIP charts), and I expected planes to place their nose wheel there. I couldn't find instructions on that.

I have checked the FG source code quickly, didn't find anything useful right now - maybe I'll have a look at it later and add that information to the wiki.

bigstones wrote in Thu May 01, 2014 1:41 pm:Another kind of line I'm missing is the single red one. It seems we have them here in Italy, to mark parkings and safe zones.

There was some discussion some time ago here on the forum about adding missing lines such as the one you mention - I don't know if the modification proposed in that thread was pushed to the FG repository or if airport modelers had to resort to other tricks, but I'm sure that feature is implemented at LIPZ (Venezia) - you might want to have a look at it.

bigstones wrote in Thu May 01, 2014 1:41 pm:So, well, my question is: how is it going on your computer?

I'm not on the computer I usually run FG on at the moment so I can't give you accurate framerates right now, but it runs quite well (approx. 20 fps) on a Samsung RV511 laptop (4 GB RAM, Intel Core i5 CPU, nVidia GTX mobile GPU with 1 GB VRAM) - I'm usually on the new 777-200ER "Seattle".
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Re: LIPY airport - added screenshots

Postby F-JJTH » Thu May 01, 2014 3:16 pm

psadro_gm wrote in Thu May 01, 2014 2:02 pm:I'll look into getting Jenkins to start building scenery/ws2.0 branch, as master is unstable at the moment.

Jenkins is building TG from scenery/ws2.0 since some days :wink:

Regards,
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Re: LIPY airport - added screenshots

Postby bigstones » Thu May 01, 2014 10:57 pm

F-JJTH wrote in Thu May 01, 2014 3:16 pm:
psadro_gm wrote in Thu May 01, 2014 2:02 pm:I'll look into getting Jenkins to start building scenery/ws2.0 branch, as master is unstable at the moment.

Jenkins is building TG from scenery/ws2.0 since some days :wink:

Regards,
Clément

Downloaded and compiled with your script (I probably wouldn't have started any scenery editing without that), much better now.
BTW, I'm on Debian Jessie and I had to resolve some dependencies with libgdal-dev. Aptitude helped in this, just had to skip the first two solutions.

With my optimization adventures, I finally gave up with 'range', I'm using it only to remove some parts that at a distance flicker too much. To remove details, I used a 'select' on heavier stuff: if "detailed" distance is more than 1501 (that is, you boldly overrode the default), 'select' those objects. Much simpler, and above all, case closed.

@elgaton: fences, edge and hold lines fixed.

Well, at the end of the day, lots of stuff fixed :)
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Re: LIPY airport - now less scary at night

Postby bigstones » Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:31 pm

I released another preview, the largest improvements are seen at night, with lightmaps and Rembrandt lights.
The other news and download are here: http://wiki.flightgear.org/Falconara_Ai ... nd_testing

The next release isn't going to come soon, because remapping all the textures for the scenery db won't be easy...
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Re: LIPY airport - now less scary at night

Postby legoboyvdlp » Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:12 pm

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