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Scenery 2.0 Quality

Questions and discussion about enhancing and populating the FlightGear world.

Re: Scenery 2.0 Quality

Postby wlbragg » Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:08 am

I think the exact quote is

Need time and RAM!



Sneak peek

Image
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Re: Scenery 2.0 Quality

Postby f-ojac » Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:41 pm

Yep it'd probably take one year or more and hundreds of Gb of storage to handle a full coverage at once. But don't worry, if it's on the mapserver it's there on purpose!
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Re: Scenery 2.0 Quality

Postby imagio » Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:00 pm

Well I have some time and a decent amount of ram (16gb) and lots of storage (3tb) -- how would I go about generating a chunk of scenery like above with OSM roads? I noticed that I cannot download sections of NLCD data from the mapserver, but I did download the entire NLCD dataset from MRLC here http://www.mrlc.gov/nlcd06_data.php. Now that I have that 17gb landcover file how do I go about extracting just the section that I want to compile scenery with? Use something like QGIS? And after that how can I merge it with OSM road data? Sorry if this kind of information is already covered in the wiki, I was unable to find it.

An explanation of the general process and an example of the terragear commands used to generate the terrain in the above screenshot would be really helpful!
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Re: Scenery 2.0 Quality

Postby wlbragg » Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:03 am

It takes a good amount of time and study to learn how to use the tools required to make this scenery. I've been asking questions and fiddling with it for over a year and I am still grossly inadequate with the whole process.
I use QGIS to process the shapefiles and the Terragear tool chain to actually create the scenery. To get started I would recommend reading..
http://wiki.flightgear.org/TerraGear_GUI
http://wiki.flightgear.org/TerraGear
http://wiki.flightgear.org/Using_TerraGear
and search through this forum for any info, tips, tricks and help.
As far as using QGIS, I found it difficult to do anything but the basics mostly because for me it was like learning a foreign language. It's hard to figure out what to do when you don't know the terminology. I can tell you I used raster to vector to convert the tiff to a shapefile. Then parse the shapefile using "open attribute table" and selecting DN=?? and saving results to a separate shapefile. You have to pay attention to the CRS and make sure your consistent across the board.There may indeed be a much better way to do it, but this is what I figured out for myself and so far it has worked for me. I learned how to limp around in QGIS just by searching the net.
One other thing that you need to know is the Linux version of Terragear tools is way more stable than the Win binaries. In fact unless fixed over the last few days, the most current build of Windows binaries are broke, both 32 and 64 bit. The 32 bit was way broke but the 64 bit it was just ogrDecode that had a problem. I'm using a year old version in Windows then when I'm ready do a final run, I do it in Linux to get the most current tool chain.
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Re: Scenery 2.0 Quality

Postby imagio » Sat Apr 05, 2014 3:06 pm

Thanks for the tips! I already have terragear and terragear-gui running on windows. I have been playing with terragear-gui however building scenery for my area (Pittsburgh) using OpenStreetmap and SRTM-1 with the default settings of terragear-gui just seems to get me garbled output like this: Image

I am going to dive into QGIS and see what I can figure out.

Could you please post the terragear commands you used to build your scenery? It would go a long way to helping me figure out what sane inputs to terragear look like!
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Re: Scenery 2.0 Quality

Postby Hooray » Sat Apr 05, 2014 3:12 pm

imagio wrote in Sat Apr 05, 2014 3:06 pm:Could you please post the terragear commands you used to build your scenery? It would go a long way to helping me figure out what sane inputs to terragear look like!


fgrun already supports "profiles" for different previously stored settings, maybe that would be a useful feature for Gijs' TGGUI, too ?
So that people could save their profiles with settings that can be overridden-we could ship those as XML files, to enable new users to more easily come up with default settings that should "just work".
Then again, we could just as well add this to the web service we're currently working on:

Subject: Scenery building server - anyone interested?

Hooray wrote:http://wiki.flightgear.org/FlightGear_Newsletter_April_2014#Proof-of-Concept:_A_TerraGear_Web_Service_.28by_F-JJTH.29
Image
http://wiki.flightgear.org/TerraGear_sc ... ild_server
Please don't send support requests by PM, instead post your questions on the forum so that all users can contribute and benefit
Thanks & all the best,
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Re: Scenery 2.0 Quality

Postby wlbragg » Sat Apr 05, 2014 4:24 pm

Are you just pulling data for you scenery from the GUI?
Can you list all the layers you are using in your scenery and what each layer is?

Image
Image
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Image
Image
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Re: Scenery 2.0 Quality

Postby Hooray » Sat Apr 05, 2014 4:32 pm

right, having to post screen shots to come up with reproducible settings isn't exactly user-friendly, we should probably really consider adding some XML export and providing an option to load such settings
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Re: Scenery 2.0 Quality

Postby imagio » Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:51 pm

wlbragg wrote in Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:03 am: I can tell you I used raster to vector to convert the tiff to a shapefile. Then parse the shapefile using "open attribute table" and selecting DN=?? and saving results to a separate shapefile. You have to pay attention to the CRS and make sure your consistent across the board.


I am confused about "selecting DN=??". I loaded the entire NLCD dataset into QGIS, found the area I wanted, exported that area as a tiff, loaded the tiff, did raster to vector on the tiff, and now I have my shapefile where I can see the attribute table and select features by DN. However DN is just a set of numbers. How do you correlate DN with materials you might want to compile into flightgear? Maybe I am a bit confused at the overall process. Do you export each feature (DN) as a separate shapefile to process via terragear? Or do you export the features you want as one shapefile where terragear can differentiate via some field (DN=xx)? Sorry for asking so many questions!

edit: I think I answered my question about separate shapefiles by looking at the OSM data downloaded by terragear-gui -- you want separate shapefiles for each material/line going into terragear. Is this correct? Even if so, I still don't quite understand how to map DN of the NLCD data to flightgear materials.
Last edited by imagio on Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Scenery 2.0 Quality

Postby wlbragg » Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:26 pm

we should probably really consider adding some XML export and providing an option to load such settings


Agreed, it already has that feature although I believe it is not complete. I just wanted to get him an answer fast and that was the fastest way I could do it without rewriting the manual.

I export each feature as a shapefile. Each DN number is a feature in the shapefile. There could be, 255 I think it is, but there are only a dozen or so in this one that are actually used. All the others are black (255). You can see all the numbers by clicking the plus + at the left of the shapefile description in the TOC. But, I found another way that lets you do them all at once. Use Vector\Data Management Tools\Split vector layer.
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Re: Scenery 2.0 Quality

Postby wlbragg » Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:29 pm

we should probably really consider adding some XML export and providing an option to load such settings


Code: Select all
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<settings>
    <paths>
        <project>F:\fgdev\scenery\kansas</project>
        <terragear>F:\fgdev\apps\TGnewest64\TerraGear</terragear>
        <flightgear>F:\FlightGear\data</flightgear>
        <elevationdir>F:\fgdev\scenery\kansas\data\SRTM-1</elevationdir>
        <airportfile>F:/fgdev/data/airport/apt.dat/850/Kansas/kansas-wip.850.dat</airportfile>
    </paths>
    <boundaries>
        <north>40</north>
        <south>36</south>
        <east>-94</east>
        <west>-102</west>
    </boundaries>
    <check>
        <ignore_landmass>true</ignore_landmass>
        <no_data>true</no_data>
    </check>
</settings>


Currently, this is all it saves.
Last edited by wlbragg on Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Scenery 2.0 Quality

Postby imagio » Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:31 pm

You beat me to it by answering right as I was editing my last post to say I figured it out haha. Thanks! I am still a little confused about how to map DN to flightgear material -- is there a mapping existing? Or a reference somewhere that says what each DN is supposed to represent? Or do you just compare to a satellite image to figure out what that DN is supposed to be? It would seem to make sense to create a mapping for each data source (data source -> fg material) so that pieces of scenery made by different people are always consistent across a data source.
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Re: Scenery 2.0 Quality

Postby wlbragg » Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:34 pm

Terragear/share/default_priorities is the default FlightGear map. The NCLD data, who knows? I'd imagine there is one. I just compared it to sat image and conform it to use the FG priorities.
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Re: Scenery 2.0 Quality

Postby wlbragg » Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:46 pm

Hooray, I and many others have asked most of these same questions over the last year or more. I have educated myself enough to know the wiki's are pretty disjointed and most articles fall out of date fast. I also understand that is the way it is always going to be unless someone (myself included) takes the time to organize and manage it on a regular basis. Most of this info is in the wiki's somewhere. It's just not easy to find it, especially if you don't know what your looking for. I think my biggest problem was not knowing the proper FlightGear "start page" so to speak. If that were referred to more often then maybe newer users could find things easier. If the pages I directed imagio to doesn't have this info, well then, that's a problem I guess and needs to be added. I suppose someone more familiar with the wiki mechanics could hard code the pics I took to the GUI wiki for more examples. I just learned I could even edit the wiki's recently but that's the extent of my knowledge of it.
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Re: Scenery 2.0 Quality

Postby imagio » Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:54 pm

OK, thanks, I think I am getting close to being able to attempt generating a portion of scenery with this data. Once I have split the vectorized tiff into shapefiles and put them into subdirectories of myproject/data they do not show up in the material tab of terragear gui when I click "retrieve shapefiles". I expected to see "DN_11", "DN_21", and so on under the "Shapefile" column. I suspect I am missing a step in QGIS to make the shapefile recognizable to terragear/terragear-gui. Can you point me in the right direction?
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