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what used to be >= 60 fps/30ms (ufo@ksfo) is now 25fps/80+ms

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what used to be >= 60 fps/30ms (ufo@ksfo) is now 25fps/80+ms

Postby Hooray » Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:48 pm

This could mean a lot of work for all of us involved in the support/troubleshooting forum once the 3.0 release is out:

After commit https://gitorious.org/fg/fgdata/commit/ ... 0ad3701160 I am now getting only ~25fps and 80+ms even when just using the ufo @ksfo with zero shaders/eye-candy enabled - I'd be very surprised if we'll have many users able to enjoy the new -admittedly great-looking- scenery that way - as it's obviously not a misconfiguration issue (imagine, someone starting the 777/787 or A380 at KSFO): :D

EDIT: confirmed: 777-200ER @KSFO 28R now shows up with ~12-15fps, 160ms (previously, 35 fps 60ms) on a ~ $2000 US notebook bought in late 2012... :D

Also, there are quite a few errors due to missing objects apparently:
Code: Select all
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942058.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Maritime/Misc/right_bank_beacon.ac'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942058.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Maritime/Misc/left_bank_beacon.ac'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942058.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Maritime/Misc/left_bank_beacon.ac'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942058.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Airport/hangar4.xml'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942058.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Airport/hangar5.xml'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942057.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Maritime/Misc/Buoy-Safe-Water.ac'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Commercial/generic_skyscraper_01.xml'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Commercial/generic_skyscraper_01.xml'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Commercial/generic_skyscraper_01.xml'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Commercial/generic_skyscraper_01.xml'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Commercial/generic_skyscraper_01.xml'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Commercial/generic_skyscraper_01.xml'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Commercial/generic_skyscraper_01.xml'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Commercial/generic_skyscraper_01.xml'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Commercial/generic_skyscraper_01.xml'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Commercial/generic_skyscraper_01.xml'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Maritime/Misc/right_bank_beacon.ac'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Maritime/Misc/right_bank_beacon.ac'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Maritime/Misc/right_bank_beacon.ac'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Maritime/Misc/right_bank_beacon.ac'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Maritime/Misc/right_bank_beacon.ac'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Maritime/Misc/right_bank_beacon.ac'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Maritime/Misc/right_bank_beacon.ac'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Maritime/Misc/right_bank_beacon.ac'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Maritime/Misc/right_bank_beacon.ac'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Maritime/Misc/right_bank_beacon.ac'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Maritime/Misc/right_bank_beacon.ac'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Maritime/Misc/right_bank_beacon.ac'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Maritime/Misc/right_bank_beacon.ac'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Maritime/Misc/right_bank_beacon.ac'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Maritime/Misc/right_bank_beacon.ac'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Maritime/Misc/right_bank_beacon.ac'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Maritime/Misc/right_bank_beacon.ac'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Maritime/Misc/right_bank_beacon.ac'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Maritime/Misc/right_bank_beacon.ac'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Maritime/Misc/right_bank_beacon.ac'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Maritime/Misc/right_bank_beacon.ac'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Maritime/Misc/right_bank_beacon.ac'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Maritime/Misc/left_bank_beacon.ac'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Maritime/Misc/left_bank_beacon.ac'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Maritime/Misc/left_bank_beacon.ac'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Maritime/Misc/left_bank_beacon.ac'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Maritime/Misc/left_bank_beacon.ac'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Maritime/Misc/left_bank_beacon.ac'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Maritime/Misc/left_bank_beacon.ac'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Maritime/Misc/left_bank_beacon.ac'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Maritime/Misc/left_bank_beacon.ac'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Maritime/Misc/left_bank_beacon.ac'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Maritime/Misc/left_bank_beacon.ac'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Maritime/Misc/left_bank_beacon.ac'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Maritime/Misc/left_bank_beacon.ac'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Transport/motorhome.ac'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Maritime/Misc/Buoy-Cylindrical-Yellow.ac'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Maritime/Misc/Buoy-Conical-Yellow.ac'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Maritime/Misc/Buoy-Conical-Yellow.ac'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942066.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Maritime/Misc/Buoy-Conical-Yellow.ac'



This is probably gonna turn me into an osgEarth convert ... and I'll change the "minimal startup profile" detailed in the wiki to suggest using osgEarth instead :lol:
Please don't send support requests by PM, instead post your questions on the forum so that all users can contribute and benefit
Thanks & all the best,
Hooray
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Re: what used to be >= 60 fps/30ms (ufo@ksfo) is now 25fps/8

Postby f-ojac » Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:00 pm

Hooray wrote in Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:48 pm:
Code: Select all
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942058.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Maritime/Misc/right_bank_beacon.ac'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942058.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Maritime/Misc/left_bank_beacon.ac'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942058.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Maritime/Misc/left_bank_beacon.ac'
/home/hooray/sources/fgroot/Scenery/Objects/w130n30/w123n37/942057.stg: Failed to load OBJECT_SHARED 'Models/Maritime/Misc/Buoy-Safe-Water.ac'

They are here: http://scenemodels.flightgear.org/model ... ?shared=17
When starting at KSFO, I only have
Code: Select all
optirun ./run_fgfs.sh --airport=KSFO --aircraft=777-200ER --prop:/sim/rendering/multithreading-mode=AutomaticSelection --enable-terrasync --enable-fullscreen
Enabling ATI viewport hack
Starting automatic scenery download/synchronization. Using built-in SVN support. Directory: '/home/olivier/.fgfs/TerraSync'.
Cannot find image file ""
Cannot find image file ""
environment init
Could not find at least one of the following objects for animation: 'terminal_2'
Could not find at least one of the following objects for animation: 'terminal_2'

33fps 58ms
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Re: what used to be >= 60 fps/30ms (ufo@ksfo) is now 25fps/8

Postby Hooray » Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:03 pm

f-ojac wrote in Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:00 pm:33fps 58ms


Run this:
Code: Select all
cd $FG_ROOT
git checkout 5ab5b772853c00c49a80b12ccb9ccb30df2e2215
fgfs --airport=ksfo --runway=28r --aircraft=ufo


and report back :D
(I am seeing ~25+ fps and -40ms here)

EDIT: Here's FG 3.1 (today's SG/FG from git next) using the previous scenery showing a fgplot graph (frame rate & latency):
Image
Last edited by Hooray on Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Please don't send support requests by PM, instead post your questions on the forum so that all users can contribute and benefit
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Re: what used to be >= 60 fps/30ms (ufo@ksfo) is now 25fps/8

Postby sanhozay » Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:13 pm

I've been trying to run the latest git version today and there was just no pleasure in it. I'll check the frame rate but it was much less than 25. I'd say easily less than 10fps with airliners, C172P was scratchy but flyable.

Is it the scenery that does the damage?

What hardware is the most likely solution for those that want it? Processor or graphics card?
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Re: what used to be >= 60 fps/30ms (ufo@ksfo) is now 25fps/8

Postby f-ojac » Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:23 pm

15ms 68 fps with the ufo with the latest git on.
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Re: what used to be >= 60 fps/30ms (ufo@ksfo) is now 25fps/8

Postby Thorsten » Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:29 pm

Can somebody give an idea of the vertex count new vs. old? My feeling is that this is the bottleneck.
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Re: what used to be >= 60 fps/30ms (ufo@ksfo) is now 25fps/8

Postby Hooray » Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:36 pm

f-ojac wrote in Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:23 pm:33fps 58ms
15ms 68 fps with the ufo with the latest git on.

If that's the same binary/settings and you only changed your aircraft while using the latest fgdata in both tests, then, you are obviously not "scenery-bound" but apparently "aircraft-bound", which comes not as a surprise given that the 777 is quite resource-hungry - which is why I suggested previously to compare performance using the ufo instead.
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Re: what used to be >= 60 fps/30ms (ufo@ksfo) is now 25fps/8

Postby f-ojac » Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:50 pm

Thorsten wrote in Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:29 pm:Can somebody give an idea of the vertex count new vs. old? My feeling is that this is the bottleneck.

And most probably due to OSM roads. The solution is to rebuild the whole world with psadro's patches, but I don't know if everything is ready from his side.
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Re: what used to be >= 60 fps/30ms (ufo@ksfo) is now 25fps/8

Postby forest-ka » Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:58 pm

I'm using a $500 netbook, and KSFO with scenery 2.12 (old) got about 18 FPS with the c172p, and the 2.0 scenery (new) with the same airplane gets about 8.
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Re: what used to be >= 60 fps/30ms (ufo@ksfo) is now 25fps/8

Postby Hooray » Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:11 pm

f-ojac wrote in Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:50 pm:And most probably due to OSM roads. The solution is to rebuild the whole world with psadro's patches, but I don't know if everything is ready from his side.


Typically, such highly detailed scenery features would be kept in dedicated scenegraph "branch" so that they can be excluded or customized at runtime, i.e. made optional on the CLIENT side.
Please don't send support requests by PM, instead post your questions on the forum so that all users can contribute and benefit
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Re: what used to be >= 60 fps/30ms (ufo@ksfo) is now 25fps/8

Postby f-ojac » Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:13 pm

Hi, we've had several reports with the same fps drop, so that's not something pretty new, and a fix should solve a part of this. But however, adding more details, it was hard to hope to get a higher or equal fps.
However, if a recent commit broke something for someone who was alreading using 2.01 scenery, then that's something new.
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Re: what used to be >= 60 fps/30ms (ufo@ksfo) is now 25fps/8

Postby f-ojac » Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:18 pm

Hooray wrote in Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:11 pm:Typically, such highly detailed scenery features would be kept in dedicated scenegraph "branch" so that they can be excluded or customized at runtime, i.e. made optional on the CLIENT side.


The scenery is out since October/November, so I'm surprised this subject is out in the open now. And I already told I was in favour of a "low end" FG and a "high end" one.
However, remember the time the scenery went out, we had dozens of forum posts and so on saying "hey, your scenery is outdated and awful, what you're doing?". No one was there to say "I'm a bit afraid of the fps loss we may caught". Remember also the backend necessary to maintain two complete worldwide scenery databases behind.
But the fix Pete talked about earlier will probably give us all some fps back. A recent patch on git gave me +20 fps, however, and it was not scenery related, so there are efforts to be made sim-wide.
And that's why I already said I was also in favour of having one version out of two, or three, or four, dedicated to perf enhancement and bug fixing, rather than new features implementation.
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Re: what used to be >= 60 fps/30ms (ufo@ksfo) is now 25fps/8

Postby adrian » Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:24 pm

Maybe I'm just dumb, but I fail to see what's the link between a fgdata commit and scenery 2.0?
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Re: what used to be >= 60 fps/30ms (ufo@ksfo) is now 25fps/8

Postby Hooray » Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:47 pm

f-ojac wrote in Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:18 pm:
Hooray wrote in Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:11 pm:Typically, such highly detailed scenery features would be kept in dedicated scenegraph "branch" so that they can be excluded or customized at runtime, i.e. made optional on the CLIENT side.


The scenery is out since October/November, so I'm surprised this subject is out in the open now. And I already told I was in favour of a "low end" FG and a "high end" one.

Please do not tell me that I should settle for a "low-end FlightGear" given that I spend $2k US for this computer not even 18 months ago, and given that I am not only able to run other simulators (X-Plane) or games on the very same computer, but even an identical FlightGear binary - as long as it doesn't use certain data :D

However, remember the time the scenery went out, we had dozens of forum posts and so on saying "hey, your scenery is outdated and awful, what you're doing?". No one was there to say "I'm a bit afraid of the fps loss we may caught".

Well, you make it sound like people wouldn't appreciate ongoing development - but that's simply not the case, what we're talking about here is distributing a known regression to all users ...
i.e. it's a completely different matter. because we're aware that things are not quite ready yet: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=21498&p=195610&hilit=#p195610


But the fix Pete talked about earlier will probably give us all some fps back. A recent patch on git gave me +20 fps, however, and it was not scenery related, so there are efforts to be made sim-wide.
And that's why I already said I was also in favour of having one version out of two, or three, or four, dedicated to perf enhancement and bug fixing, rather than new features implementation.


I don't know, I think you may be getting me wrong - I sure appreciate all the ongoing work here, but we should be a bit more thoughtful about forcing certain regression upon users.
Unlike 99.9 % of our users, I don't only know how to use/build from git, but I also know how to revert things within seconds, so that I won't be affected by certain decision making (or lack thereof).
Seriously though: You will find that I belong to the camp of people that discourage running "outdated" versions of fgfs/fgdata just due to performance issues - but this is one particular instance where things are no longer "optional" (unlike for example most of Thorsten's work) and where things are not trivial to revert for the layman (again, I am not affected by this, as I am able to revert things)

But however, adding more details, it was hard to hope to get a higher or equal fps.

that's out of question - and that's not the point, but people need to be able to make decisions, dropping a huge blob of data into the package that causes performance regressions >=50% is pretty severe, especially for people who do not have the latest hardware (mine being "only" ~15 months old) and who are not able to deal with things afterwards.

adrian wrote in Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:24 pm:Maybe I'm just dumb, but I fail to see what's the link between a fgdata commit and scenery 2.0?

click the first link in the original message :D
Please don't send support requests by PM, instead post your questions on the forum so that all users can contribute and benefit
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Re: what used to be >= 60 fps/30ms (ufo@ksfo) is now 25fps/8

Postby Philosopher » Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:23 pm

Can we get TS to use (an) old revision(s)? Or is that not supported by the built-in? Because I too can compile from Git and theoretically get any configuration I want, but TerraSync is just too convenient for me to bother with SVN or graphical tile downloader ;).
Thanks,
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