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Miami KMIA Scenery Project. *Seeking collaboration*

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Miami KMIA Scenery Project. *Seeking collaboration*

Postby andyramone » Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:02 pm

Hi folks,

Apologies in advance, I may go on a bit here. Sip to the end to hear about KMIA project.

Some of you may remember me from a couple of years ago. I joined the FG community in 2009, and got involved with creating scenery in the UK. I was responsible for the scenery in and around Norwich Airport (EGSH) and the UK Football Stadium Project.

After that, I started flying for AVA, and after discussions with Alex and Jason in 2010, offered to create some custom scenery for KMIA, exclusive for AVA pilots, which was a much used Airport that lacked decent scenery.

I spent 4-5 months building the main terminal and hangars in Sketchup, but around the beginning of 2011, my interest in FG and the project waned, and I silently stepped away from it. Real life gets in the way, and I started a new hobby making Scale Aircraft Models (which I continue to this day.) The nearly finished KMIA model sat on my hard drive collecting dust.

However, I still lurked on the forums from time to time, and have been waiting to get back into modelling scenery for FG. I recently got back in touch with Alex, and seeked collaboration with him to finish the project and get it into FG for Atlas Virtual Airlines exclusively. However, Alex has let me know that he can’t commit the time to help me out, and so I have decided to bring this to whole FG community, as my interest in flying for AVA and in FG is not yet revived.

So, firstly, my skills regarding scenery development are limited to creating models in Sketchup. Below, is a screenshot of the KMIA terminal as I left it, and some hangars to the north. I hope you will see that is has potential. I like to strike a balance between detail/accuracy with low filesize (something which I perfected in my football stadium project)

Image

Image

Image

Image



What I really wanted to achieve with this though was more than just a model. I can see that there has been some exciting developments recently regarding scenery development, and I am putting this out there to seek collaboration with some of you guys who have experience where mine is lacking.

I have noticed that recently, statto has updated the landclass data in Miami, which is great news as that is key to getting my model in FG. However, I have noticed the airport layout has not changed, which to my eye is inaccurate, and my model will not fit comfortably in the current layout.

So, I’m seeking help from you kind people in the following areas:

1.Airport layout – Either updated in Taxidraw, or if possible, the new 850 format which looks like it has the potential to take FG to another level in scenery realism.
2.Working jetways – I understand there is a huge thread regarding this, that offers help in how to implement this. But I would greatly appreciate any one who knows how this works to contribute those to this model, as it is beyond me.
3.Help with textures from my model – Some of the textures are very basic in my model, an I would like to overhaul them and try and get them a little more realistic. I would also seek help in implementing night textures, so anyone who can give advice on that would be a great help.
4.AI traffic – I’m hoping one of the chaps who works on the AI stuff (gooneybird springs to mind, as he helped me with Norwich) can update the ground network and write some AI traffic once the new layout has been fixed.

So if you can offer your time to help in the above areas, or naything else you can think of please let me know in this thread, and see if we can make KMIA one of the best developed airports in FG.
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Re: Miami KMIA Scenery Project. *Seeking collaboration*

Postby f-ojac » Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:10 pm

Hi Andy,

Nice project. Please make sure you read this : viewtopic.php?f=5&t=15468 for your scenery. This will ease its integration within FG scenery db.
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Re: Miami KMIA Scenery Project. *Seeking collaboration*

Postby statto » Fri Mar 02, 2012 5:00 pm

1) The airport layout for 8.50 is already updated and would help with placement, but see below.
2) You don't explicitly do this through Sketchup, at least I have not. You do this through xml. What I do is I get the local coordinates of each jetway in Sketchup and then add the jetway in the xml file.
3) Night textures also utilize xml - basically you have to create your model in such a way to allow the texture to "scroll" into the night textures. It also means you have to rework your textures.
4) May be able to do this in WED, the new editor.

Furthermore you don't need the airport layout to place your models - the USGS allows you to get coordinates to properly place the model.

If you place each individual structure into a separate SketchUp file (necessary to get them into the scenery database), I can help you derive the coordinates - the important thing is the corner of the building must be at the ORIGINAL point of origin in the sketchup file when you export (IE, don't use SketchUp's "move the axes"). This way the buildings will be at their correct location regardless of how wrong the airport layout is.
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Re: Miami KMIA Scenery Project. *Seeking collaboration*

Postby Gijs » Fri Mar 02, 2012 5:16 pm

In addition to Statto's answers:
3) See http://wiki.flightgear.org/Howto:_Illum ... lluminated
4) WED does not (yet) support AI networks, as it was not designed for FlightGear anyway. You need to use the old TaxiDraw instead. All required steps are described at http://wiki.flightgear.org/Interactive_ ... d_networks
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Re: Miami KMIA Scenery Project. *Seeking collaboration*

Postby andyramone » Fri Mar 02, 2012 5:35 pm

Hi guys, thanks for the advice and pointers.

I think that I will focus on getting the model as accurately placed via co-ords as possible for now, and I suppose the rest can follow as they develop within FG. I will also work on the textures, I'm going to try creating a texture map so that I can then produce a night texture as well. I can do very basic xml editing following the wiki, so that should be possible for me to do.

Regarding the rest of the stuff I listed, it was my hope that people with the required knowedge may be able to provide these things to be added as part of the over all project. I could spend weeks/months trying to work out how to do these things (indeed, on the most part I have) but someone who knows how to do it may be able to do it in a matter of hours. I was inspired by the collaborative work done for RJGG, and it was mainly that that inspired me to get back into modelling in FG.

For example, Moving Jetways, is something I have tried previously, but I can't quite wrap my head around it. If some one with the knowledge can provide assistance in this it would be greatly appreciated. But I would suggest it's the least important part of this project and the last thing to come.

Regarding the airport taxiway layout statto, I wasn't aware that KMIA was already produced in 850. What is the current status of 850 anyway? Is it something that is easily implemented in FG 2.6 for an end user? And if so, where can I go to have get KMIA in my FG?

Assuming 850 is a long term thing, and not ready for general use, I would like to at least get the current layout more accurate to fit in with my model via Taxidraw, so that we can also have an accurate ground network and AI. Again, Taxidraw is not my fortay (I've spent hours trying to work it without success,) and I would hope someone with the skills could have a look at updating it into the main scenery database in collaboration with my model. If there is anyone who is willing to do this, please let me know.

Lastly, statto, you mentioned that the model would need to be broken up, I was aware that this is the case for indivdual buildings, has anything chagned in that regard? The main terminal you see in my OP is one model. There is no sepearting between the terminal gates and the main building. Can that be put in the scenery database as 1 whole model?

Apologies for all the questions, but I'm just trying to get back into this after a long time away. It's certainly good to be back.
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Re: Miami KMIA Scenery Project. *Seeking collaboration*

Postby statto » Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:40 pm

I don't know if the one modeled Denver terminal has moving jetways, but I know it has jetways, you should take a look at that .xml file.

I think moving jetways are just added as another .xml but I am not sure.

Furthermore, regarding 8.50, it's far enough along where you shouldn't try to improve the 8.10 data, but it's not quite ready for "prime time". Someone may correct me but that is the sense I got.

Nothing has changed regarding breaking up buildings, the main terminal is one large model but should be in a separate file from the hangars, airport admin building, etc.

If you want to place the buildings yourself, I highly recommend the website http://seamless.usgs.gov - it is a bit antiquated, but once you figure out how to display imagery, you can get the coordinates (which you then have to convert to decimal degrees, but that's not a huge problem - there's a website for that).
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Re: Miami KMIA Scenery Project. *Seeking collaboration*

Postby Hooray » Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:10 pm

hey, yes - I do remember you, welcome back !
And btw: fantastic work!
Please don't send support requests by PM, instead post your questions on the forum so that all users can contribute and benefit
Thanks & all the best,
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Re: Miami KMIA Scenery Project. *Seeking collaboration*

Postby gooneybird » Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:46 am

Hi Andy, nice work and welcome back :D

I'm currently heavily involved in updating the AI aircraft/liveries and have not done any ground networks for a while, also been waiting to see how 850 and WED will impact on network creation, but If you get no other offers I'll be happy to get involved.
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Re: Miami KMIA Scenery Project. *Seeking collaboration*

Postby andyramone » Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:05 pm

Hi Gooneybird, nice to hear from you.

Thanks for the offer of your help. Seems like the timing on the 850 is at an akward point. Caught between two points.

I'm currently focusing on revampiong my old models textures, which will take a few weeks, so I suppose we will have to see how it develops. If you feel you have the time though, feel free to work on the old taxidraw layout, I don't think it would take much work to amend the existing layout and get it more accurate. At least that will then keep things ticking over.
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Re: Miami KMIA Scenery Project. *Seeking collaboration*

Postby kyokoyama » Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:12 am

Welcome back, Andy! Great to see you and your amazing models, again! :D

Sadly, I can't really help at the moment due to other projects and real life (..well.. mostly real life.. it's being a b**** right now).
However, I do know that KSFO, KLAS and maybe EGKK also have movable jetways -I'm not sure if that's Ryan (Skyop)'s old version or the current one, though. Those might work as examples too, if KDEN isn't enough.

I'll be looking forward to your upcoming models!

PS: Are the windows on your buildings separate textured polygons, or is it part of a texture? If it is... ... ...I need to learn to make building textures on SketchUp ASAP...
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Re: Miami KMIA Scenery Project. *Seeking collaboration*

Postby gooneybird » Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:29 pm

andyramone wrote in Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:05 pm:
Thanks for the offer of your help. Seems like the timing on the 850 is at an akward point. Caught between two points.

This is why I was waiting, I'd hate to do a groundnet in Taxidraw only to find it can't be used anymore :(

I don't think it would take much work to amend the existing layout and get it more accurate. At least that will then keep things ticking over.

I don't think there is an existing groundnet, not one I could find anyway.
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Re: Miami KMIA Scenery Project. *Seeking collaboration*

Postby andyramone » Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:42 pm

gooneybird wrote in Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:29 pm:I don't think there is an existing groundnet, not one I could find anyway.


Ah I see. I was thinking more of the layout of the airport and taxiways however. Although I'm not that clear on how the airport data is released? Is it part of the Terrasync downloads or would people have to wait for 2.8 before they get the update? By which time I suppose we may have 850 anyway. If it's a case of getting via terrasync, it may be worth updating making the layout more accurate in the meantime.

I'm actually retexturing from scratch, because quite frankly, the whole textures were a bit of a mess anyway. I'm struggling to work out how I can make a texture map however for a model so complicated. Any one got any tips on that?

Also, anyone know of GPL compliant texture source for airport type textures?

Either way, it's going to take a while, so hopefully in the meantime we'll get some clarification around 850 airports.
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Re: Miami KMIA Scenery Project. *Seeking collaboration*

Postby statto » Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:47 pm

I wouldn't bother restarting with a texture map at this point. Furthermore, I'd like to reiterate an 8.50 layout is not necessary for adding in your buildings. If you get a building textured, I'd send it into scenemodels - you can always update it later!
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Re: Miami KMIA Scenery Project. *Seeking collaboration*

Postby andyramone » Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:53 am

statto wrote in Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:47 pm:I wouldn't bother restarting with a texture map at this point. Furthermore, I'd like to reiterate an 8.50 layout is not necessary for adding in your buildings. If you get a building textured, I'd send it into scenemodels - you can always update it later!


Hi Statto,

Yes, I am aware the layout is not necessary for the placement of my model. I was just hoping that it could be worked on in collaboration with my model.

I am also aware of the need to submit models unfinished (although I don't fully understand why) after reading about Martin's views on the developers mailing list.

I will submit the model I have this week when I have got the correct co-ords, so it is at least in the database whilst I work on improving it.
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Re: Miami KMIA Scenery Project. *Seeking collaboration*

Postby andyramone » Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:56 pm

So, I've been playing around with night textures, using one of the concourses to play around with. After much trouble I finally got it working thanks to some help on the is forum.

Image

Image

I'm pretty pleased with it, still need to play around with the emis values, but now I know it works, I can carry this over to the whole model.

I'll be submitting the basic model pictured in the OP to the database today or tomorrow, the improvements I'm making to it will take a while but I think it should make a lot of difference.
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