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Project Open Ortho

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Project Open Ortho

Postby merspieler » Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:17 pm

I'd like to start this initiative, aimed at creating distributable ortho scenery for flightgear.

Currently we've got sources for
* Europe, for some parts additional sources in higher resolution
* Parts of Australia
* US

What has already been built you can see here

To download the ortho scenery, point your terrasync client at https://cdn.merspieler.tk/oo/
WS3 base scenery needs to be downloaded separately, available here


Note:
You will need the very latest next build to run it since it uses brand new code for the WS3.0 scenery.
In the rendering settings make sure that Photoscenery is enabled and Terrain Quality is set to Ultra.

Initial things, that are needed for this to get to a level of common usability (think available via terrasync or similar):
* DONE: We certainly need a LOD. Especially the Bavaria scenery is of high quality (80cm/px source).
Without it, even the most high end GPUs will reach its VRAM limits very quickly.
I've asked for it on the mailing list but so far I haven't gotten any responce.
* DONE for now, potentially needs funding to keep my stuff up: We need a hosting solution. Tasmania and Bavaria together are about 100GB which is as much as the entire gobal terrasync (without osm2city).
My server could do it but my reverse proxy solution might break, when I load significantly more on it (currently 3.5TB bandwidth/month from terrasync, osm2city and fgaddon).
So if you've got an idea, on how to host it, please bring it up.

Once we've got this settled, all there's left to do, is to find new GPL2 compatible sources (see this for reference) and add them.
Last edited by merspieler on Mon Aug 21, 2023 9:30 am, edited 9 times in total.
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Re: Project Open Ortho

Postby V12 » Sat Sep 25, 2021 9:23 pm

Texture size 16k x 16k is very bad idea. Much better solution is tile size 256x256 or 512 x 512. Download from HDD to GPU is much faster. You can have NASA machine with ultrafast .M2 drive, but You will still see lag, when FG will load new tile with that size. I tested scenery with 4x4 16k tiles around Innsbruck, FG crashed, or lag was more than 10 seconds. It is really unusable. If You have only one tile 16k x 16k around the depart airport, it is perfectly usable, FG will load tile on startup. If You fly from airport X to airport Y placed to the center of the 16k x 16k tile, lag is 1-2 seconds (on my .M2 512 GB drive). If the destination airport is in the shared corner of the 4 16k x 16k tiles, FG crashed :(

3 years ago I made experiments with freeware TileProxy and 32 bit FSX. It worked without any problems and what is more important, without any lags or stutters. Authors developed better version for multicore CPUs, results was even better, I can fly with default F18 over the scenery and poor R3700X still can download tiles fast enough to not blur the textures, what was common with older singlecore version. There was another advantage - automatic selection of the zoom level for the tiles.

Do not reinvent the wheel, use existing solution with multiple zoom levels as all mapping web pages, this is perfectly working system.
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Re: Project Open Ortho

Postby miguel » Sat Sep 25, 2021 9:38 pm

Hi Merspieler. As I have a pc able to run 16k, I have dowloaded your demo package for EDDM. Any idea (no readme file) where to put Demo folder or content into FG ? I'd like to install it and give you feedback at 16k while testing hard this pc.
Image

Thank you in advance
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Re: Project Open Ortho

Postby V12 » Sun Sep 26, 2021 5:52 am

miguel :
I played with photoscenery in the FG almost 1 year ago based on this post :

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=37866&start=105#p377124

And this :
StuartC wrote in Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:29 am:For the FG location, whats the easiest way to find the FG tile to use in Orthophotos/w110n40/w094n44 ( to replace the /w110n40/w094n44 bit with the area I want )
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Re: Project Open Ortho

Postby merspieler » Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:05 am

V12... please just shut up... you're not contributing anything. You'd be the one reinventing the wheel... by implementing another ortho scenery mechanism. You apparently didn't even read the inital post cause then you know, that those .dds files have included mipmaps (they have lower res versions already included) so you can have LOD for them. 256 or 512 px scenery would look just garbage... except maybe from airliner CRZ alt or above. For the lag, that's why I've said, we need loading in the background so it won't stop... but aparently you're unable to read.
So just SHUT THE F*** UP!!!

@others: sorry for the strong words.

miguel: Play it anywhere you like and just add its path as addon scenery in the launcher.
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Re: Project Open Ortho

Postby V12 » Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:07 am

ROFL
I reported lags and FG crashes with 4 16k tiles. Sim was simply unusable.
Ok, You can continue in this attempts to make photoscenery. But Your way with 16k images is road to lags, crashes and unusability, when You make more than 1 tile :)

All mapping webs like Google, OSM, Bink etc works with 256x256 tiles with many zoom levels for tiles. In zoom level 0 is resolution 0.5m per pixel, in zoom level for example 15 is 1 km per pixel. If You replace one 16k tile with 4096 256x256 tiles, resolution is same for same area. If You will observe this area from FL400, You can use again 4096 tiles, but these tiles will cover much larger area with visualy same resolution and similar memory consumption. Or for same area much less tiles with of course much less memory consumption. And main benefit - if You are in one corner shared by all 4 16k tiles, You need load all these giant tiles and You need 4x more VRAM. If You divide 1 16k tile to 4096 256x256 tiles, for same area Yo need much less tiles and VRAM. For low level VFR flight, You do not need load 1 giant 16k tile if needed, but only 64 256x256 tiles in the worst scenario.
What simple, dear Dr. Watson...

BTW, I'm not total idiot and very good know that one 256x256 tile for 1 deg x 1 deg scenery block is not enough. I made many photosceneries :wink:
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Re: Project Open Ortho

Postby merspieler » Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:22 pm

Currently you can load exactly 1 texture per tile... so unless YOU put in the work, to change this, it won't be happening... also, as I said before, which you again fail to read (cause it doesn't match your mind set?), the .dds textures contain lower res mipmaps(all power of 2 resolutions, down to 1px) so it's just a matter of loading a lower mipmap at a given distance -> works with what we've already got.

So stop this nonsense talk unless YOU are willing to put in the effort.

ANY FURTHER SUCH POSTS OF YOU WILL BE REPORTED!
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Re: Project Open Ortho

Postby V12 » Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:01 pm

merspieler wrote in Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:22 pm:the .dds textures contain lower res mipmaps

But You need download whole file and it is slow.
merspieler wrote in Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:22 pm:ANY FURTHER SUCH POSTS OF YOU WILL BE REPORTED!

:lol:
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Re: Project Open Ortho

Postby V12 » Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:41 pm

I tested EDDM scenery :

Lag almost 7 seconds for load from .M2 drive.
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Re: Project Open Ortho

Postby GinGin » Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:36 pm

you're not contributing anything


V12 in a nutshell.
Contributing to nothing, telling others what should be done and that commercial things are better; and not even reading the constructive answers that have been made to him for the last few years ;)
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Re: Project Open Ortho

Postby Michat » Tue Sep 28, 2021 5:18 pm

Hi Merspieler. We have just installed your EDDM photo pack scenery for second time, just because initially the visual results were to close of the results that we already get with osm2city, for that reason it was hard to say if we already get the photo pack installed. That's why we asked you how to install that pack. Being the results so close, he have had doubts, also because the performance with the photo pack it was so much similar with 21 FPS.

We tested on AMD Ryzen 3 3200g Radeon Vega 3.60 Ghz, 8 GB Ram usable 5.94GB 64 bit x 64 processor on windows 10 pro. We didn't experimented any FPS drop comparing with the former Osm2city scenery we had installed.. About Vram use we can't give you any further information as the AMD center doesn't want to run, however it seems the driver is working good and as I tell you above, we are getting pretty good performance.

Some pictures at here: https://postimg.cc/gallery/NM0nMQt

Thank you.

Michat & Miguel.
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Re: Project Open Ortho

Postby merspieler » Tue Sep 28, 2021 5:48 pm

It doesn't realy impact performance, except for the loading.

The pictures clearly show, it's not working.

I assume you've already added the scenery as explained. You may need to check your rendering settings to see if Photoscenery is enabled.
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Re: Project Open Ortho

Postby Michat » Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:25 pm

Thank you by visual confirmation that was not working.
We have changed the path to the addon scenery outside user Ryzen/Flightgear and now it seems that is working,
The only visible glitch is that it seems that rwys are covered in Z by the Ortho texture.

Image

Image

Thanks again for your help and for this initiative.
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Re: Project Open Ortho

Postby merspieler » Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:40 pm

Could you please make a screenshot of the runway issue.

Also, what are your system specs?
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Re: Project Open Ortho

Postby miguel » Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:44 pm

Image
AMD Ryzen 3 3200g with Radeon Vega graphics 3.60 Ghz, 8 GB Ram usable 5.94GB 64 bit x 64 processor on windows 10 pro.


this long green one is supposed to be the rwy.
and thank you very much for your great work (OSM) and this new one.
greetings : miguel
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