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Azorean Groundnets with FGAirports

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Re: Azorean Groundnets with FGAirports

Postby portreekid » Tue May 11, 2021 7:56 pm

Just a quick side note to "No Were To Park"
The condition here is that there at least one "gate" parking without airline assignement. Better would of course be if the actual traffic were to be checked.
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Re: Azorean Groundnets with FGAirports

Postby AzulProfundo » Tue May 11, 2021 10:27 pm

I will have into consideration the suggestions presented by BecOzIcan (also in the emails I received from GitHub) in a second version of the airports. In LPFL and LPLA, these are easy fixes (I believe) and in LPPD I will use the coordinates in the table. The position of the parking spots was defined from the OSM, with a visual check on the official chart. But using the coordinates will be much more precise, and can decide where the deviation occurs: groundnet or terrasync?
Regarding regeneration of the scenery, that would be a long term goal, giving that I am just starting with FGAirports, and Terragear is far more complex.

On the comment by portreekid, I agree it will be a good idea to leave a parking without assignment. Could have a code like "User" in the name and 1 in the number. In large airports, could be more than one, in locations far apart.

I expect to do further groundnets, for small airfields in Azores, the following weekend. In the meanwhile, I will have a look into the posts about QGIS and WED with Terragear...
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Re: Azorean Groundnets with FGAirports

Postby AzulProfundo » Thu May 13, 2021 3:51 pm

Just a quick update.
I begun creating the groundnet for the small airfield in Graciosa (LPGR). The apron is so small that I created an "intersecting" schema for the two parking, ready for DHC8-400 planes of SATA.

To have an idea of the situation, here follow a few images.

The airfield as depicted in Bing Maps. Note the SATA plane in the parking:
Image

Initial situation in FGAirports. Following the OSM elements, and the usual (outdated) apt data:
Image

My proposal for modelling the groundnet (I did a few changes in the meanwhile):
Image

I had some rough time with the turnaround loops for the backtracks, but now and after reading the wiki "Using the runway to backtrack to the threshold" I think I have solved the issues.

Other news: I managed to install Terragear and also the TerraGearGUI on my Ubuntu notebook, using the shell script in the first case. For the GUI I had to define a new PPA, because the Qt4 framework is no longer supported in the version of Ubuntu (20.04). But they are (apparently) working, so now I have plenty to read to learn how to use them. This arises for the need to correct positioning issues between groundnet and apt / scenery elements.
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Re: Azorean Groundnets with FGAirports

Postby AzulProfundo » Sat May 15, 2021 6:11 pm

I am doing a second round of groundnets for airfields in the Azores. However, for São Jorge (LPSJ) I found a problem that will be difficult to solve just by using FGAirports.

This time, the threshold points have a significant deviation from the correct location (OSM). So, it is not possible to complete the groundnet with correct checks. The situation is as depicted in the image below. After that, I have inserted the parking spots using the nosewheel coordinates supplied in the official chart. I could confirm that they align perfectly with OSM map. This also shows that the deviation belongs to the scenery elements, namely the airport data. As this is coming from the scenery gateway, then most likely the deviation is there.

In this case there is an additional complication, because the updated apt (in FG) still does not have the runway extension shown in the OSM map. And also the "landfill" has been extended, so there are problems in the elevations also.

IMHO, the solution here is to update the airport scenery, using WED and Terragear, and not forgetting the mesh. For the moment, I will leave this groundnet as a TODO, and move forward to LPAZ. But if anyone has another, more immediate solution, I would like to hear from you.


LPSJ - São Jorge in apt.dat versus OSM.
Image
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Re: Azorean Groundnets with FGAirports

Postby BecOzIcan » Sun May 16, 2021 1:30 am

AzulProfundo wrote in Sat May 15, 2021 6:11 pm:However, for São Jorge (LPSJ) I found a problem that will be difficult to solve just by using FGAirports. This time, the threshold points have a significant deviation from the correct location (OSM). So, it is not possible to complete the groundnet with correct checks.


Updated LPSJ thresholds LAT LON pushed to groundweb. Source http://www.nav.pt/docs/AIS/aerodromos/s ... ?sfvrsn=26

Should be in the next weekly Terrasync update. You will need to resync FG airport to get the data into your layout.


Cheers
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Re: Azorean Groundnets with FGAirports

Postby AzulProfundo » Sun May 16, 2021 6:50 pm

BecOzIcan wrote in Sun May 16, 2021 1:30 am:Updated LPSJ thresholds LAT LON pushed to groundweb. Source http://www.nav.pt/docs/AIS/aerodromos/s ... ?sfvrsn=26
Should be in the next weekly Terrasync update. You will need to resync FG airport to get the data into your layout.


Great! This will solve the question from the groundnet point of view, good solution!
Regarding the syncs, I am a little confused. So FGAirports reads the groundweb folder where I have the local copy and does an automatic sync with the repository? And for the Terrasync scenery, I should do an independent sync (I use Terramaster) next week, and then rerun the folder scan in FGAirports?

I tested the Git perspective in the Eclipse IDE and verified the data is updated (for groundweb). However, when trying a pull, it said that the file LPPT.groundnet.bak.1.xml is in conflit... Have I done something wrong?

Regarding the Azorean groundnets, I uploaded LPGR and currently I am working on LPAZ - Santa Maria. This is a big airport, although underused, and this time even has a parallel taxiway. But the parking scheme is confusing. More on that in a later post. After this, the remaining airfield will be LPPI - Pico.
Then, it will be time to review and correct all the airfields, from the notifications I received.
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Re: Azorean Groundnets with FGAirports

Postby AzulProfundo » Sun May 16, 2021 10:06 pm

A quick update on LPAZ - Santa Maria airport. I am having difficulties with the parking schema. FGAirports give me two errors, as shown in the image below. The question is that the airport does not need backtracks, but the taxiway in the middle is useful for quick access to parking. At least for those planes that are able to stop before (as the DH4).

The following picture shows the usual deviations in position between groundnet and OSM, and the TerraSync scenery. It can be seen that the airplane is not at where it is expected.

Finally, the Bing Maps picture shows the parking in the real world.

The easy solution in FGAirports is just to eliminate the mid-runway entry, but the AI planes traffic will be less efficient.
Anyhow, I can not upload it with errors, while testing in the custom scenery (with the errors) gave good results, both in landing and departing.

For testing arrivals, I found out the best is to follow the AI plane with the UFO, from departure airport to the test airport. And doing so, I found some strange behavior of the AI Plane. I will report that in a separate topic in the AI Traffic forum.

LPAZ Parking in FGAirports, and the two errors in the groundnet:
Image

Positional error between OSM&groundnet vs. TerraSync scenery:
Image

Bing Maps of the Apron at LPAZ:
Image
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Re: Azorean Groundnets with FGAirports

Postby BecOzIcan » Mon May 17, 2021 2:45 am

AzulProfundo wrote in Sun May 16, 2021 10:06 pm:A quick update on LPAZ - Santa Maria airport. I am having difficulties with the parking schema. FGAirports give me two errors, as shown in the image below.


From https://wiki.flightgear.org/AI_Traffic
Step 2 : Place and configure the Runway accesses
Your access routes must be bi directional

Any unique route starting/ending on a runway must be bidirectional even if aircrafts will never use them to reach the threshold (no backtrack)
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Re: Azorean Groundnets with FGAirports

Postby portreekid » Mon May 17, 2021 6:01 am

Reminds me I wanted to add text to the error tooltips.
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Re: Azorean Groundnets with FGAirports

Postby D-ECHO » Mon May 17, 2021 10:16 am

It seems like the taxiline layout for Santa Maria was changed in real life since I generated the Azores custom scenery that was merged into terrasync (you can still see the rests of some of the old lines). I can have a look and maybe make a newer version so it all matches the newest state :)
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Re: Azorean Groundnets with FGAirports

Postby AzulProfundo » Mon May 17, 2021 10:00 pm

BecOzIcan wrote in Mon May 17, 2021 2:45 am:From https://wiki.flightgear.org/AI_Traffic
Step 2 : Place and configure the Runway accesses
Your access routes must be bi directional
Any unique route starting/ending on a runway must be bidirectional even if aircrafts will never use them to reach the threshold (no backtrack)


I have corrected the taxiways to bi-directional, but I had also to merge the node with the taxiway linking to both runway thresholds, and only then the errors were corrected. I have tested again with an arrival and departure and the result is fine, only this time I could not upload because the groundweb server (Azure) is down.

Regarding LPSJ, and after syncing the latest version from groundweb, I manage to complete the backtracks with the updated thresholds, but now the problem lies in the position of the runway (apt file)... :(

I have seen that D-ECHO has done a previous version of the Azores airports, so perhaps he could reposition the airport using OSM as a guide, and provide the corresponding apt.dat file so to update it for FGAirports. :)
I begun to prepare a scenery update with Terragear, and I have the tools, including the GUI and QGIS, so if we could team up and distribute tasks, it would be great for me. Specially it would quicken the learning curve, with the help of such experts... :wink:
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Re: Azorean Groundnets with FGAirports

Postby D-ECHO » Tue May 18, 2021 9:13 am

That's certainly possible :)

Working together on terragear project is always a bit difficult because you'd need to move a lot of data between your PCs. What we can do though is either that I help you in making the scenery or we can split the islands and each of us does a few of them.

Starting yesterday, I already adjusted Flores (LPFL) to match current aerial imagery and AIP data. When doing the same to Santa Maria (LPAZ), I ran into a problem, maybe you have an idea for:
The AIP mentions 5 main parking spots, two in the northside "row" and two in the southside "row". However, looking at current aerial imagery (e.g. bing maps), there seem to be 7, four in the north row and 3 in the south one. Even though the AIP is usually the most current and safe source, it seems to me like it shows the taxilines as before the current re-draw (the ones where you only see the rests of). Thus I'm not really sure how many parking spots to draw and how to label them.
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Re: Azorean Groundnets with FGAirports

Postby AzulProfundo » Tue May 18, 2021 12:20 pm

Replying to D-ECHO,
concerning the team effort for rebuilding the scenery, I agree that sharing files within the TerraGear structure will be difficult. And I received some concerns about the need to generate the scenery in one block, to avoid problems at the borders, namely seams in the ocean and gaps in the mesh. So, I believe the best option is to guide me in the making of the scenery. I would need the apt.dat with the updated airports you are doing, in order to process them through genapts8.50. My doubts are now on the datasets that have to be used to complete the scenery. Iomar (through PM) said that concerning OSM, I must use the roads (up to the secondary road class) and the streams. And CORINE for the land cover. Is there any other source you have used?
For the mesh, I used and already processed SRTM-3 data.

About LPAZ, it is clear that both official chart and OSM data are outdated. We should use the most up to date information available, in this case, the Bing image. However, I can only make an educated guess as to where to insert the two additional parking in the north side, given that I do not have the OSM guide beneath.
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Re: Azorean Groundnets with FGAirports

Postby D-ECHO » Tue May 18, 2021 12:29 pm

That's a good plan.

Landcover Data: I usually use CORINE for the majority of shapes, and then use OSM for the smaller details. The way I go about it is exporting the area from openstreetmap.org (using the overpass API), afterwards converting the .osm file to (name)_polygons.shp for multipolygons and (name)_lines.shp for lines using QGis and splitting the osm data using this script https://github.com/D-ECHO/Bermuda-Custo ... sm_data.sh, afterwards decoding the OSM data using https://github.com/D-ECHO/Bermuda-Custo ... sm_data.sh
If you want, I can also give you the scripts I use to split and decode CORINE shapefiles
For the Azores, there isn't any other landcover source I am aware of.

Elevation data: SRTM-3 is fine, you can also try using SRTM-1 data (more detailed) from https://lpdaac.usgs.gov/products/srtmgl1v003/ (requires NASA Earthdata login)

Airports: If you could send me your Email (via PM to avoid spambots picking it up), I'll send you the already finished apt.dat files.
If it helps, I can also just write you a list of coordinates for LPAZ's parking positions
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Re: Azorean Groundnets with FGAirports

Postby wkitty42 » Tue May 18, 2021 3:52 pm

AzulProfundo wrote in Tue May 18, 2021 12:20 pm:And I received some concerns about the need to generate the scenery in one block, to avoid problems at the borders, namely seams in the ocean and gaps in the mesh.

seams in the ocean are more acceptable than seams in the land... the only ones that would have problems with ocean seams are water craft...
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"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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