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Satellite/Photo Scenery?

Questions and discussion about enhancing and populating the FlightGear world.

Re: Satellite/Photo Scenery?

Postby wkitty42 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:31 pm

portreekid wrote in Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:00 am:Regarding "core-dev-team" they seem to be pretty elusive. Haven't met them yet. Just lots of people using glue and shoe string to build a wonderful awe inspiring Flightsim.

and bubblegum! i use lots of bubblegum (added logging) to try to figure out things the sim is doing but i'm not a core dev either ;)
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: Satellite/Photo Scenery?

Postby hans05 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:38 pm

wlbragg wrote in Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:31 am: if you succeed, well THANKS!


No, if you "succeed" why can't you ever document what you did so I can easily use it. That's the point.


The "THANKS" would be coming from the core-dev-team (if there was one). Any rant from outsiders could be gently ignored....

Thorsten wrote in Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:40 am:
Very important: NOT calling somebody names does NOT mean that you do not attack somebody.


Hans - you may be surprised - but I'm not a saint, I'm merely trying to be fair.

You will see me stay civilized when I am confronted with unreasonable demands, rude words etc. You will not get me to smile and do appeasement and help those people as far as possible - I will express my displeasure in a civilized way - and that's all such people will ever get from me till they change their tune.


I think the main problem in your communication is that you treat other people like they were children. Or lightly retarded. You might find yourself civilized since you do not use strong language.
Thorsten, NOBODY expects you to smile or do appeasement. Please try doing nothing when confronted with something you consider an unreasonable demand. Just try it. I promise again, it does not hurt! Why do you feel you have to express your displeasure all the time? Have a nice cup of tea, eat some salmiakki and relax.

I believe a community project should always strive to try to find new people trying new things.


Yes. So that brings us to full circle to the beginning of this thread - why is 'if you want it, you'll have to code it yourself, nobody opposes this but none of the active developers is interested' considered so offensive then? It explicitly encourages someone new to try new things. There's no 'won't happen' at all involved here.


"if you want it, you'll have to code it yourself, nobody opposes this but none of the active developers is interested" is offensive because

a) "if you want it, you'll have to code it yourself" sounds an awful lot like "go and f*** yourself", even I am sure you do not mean it that way.
b) "nobody opposes this" and "none of the active developers is interested" are kind of contradictory. Maybe not for you, but for most other people.
c) You are dividing into active developers and....well what? "The rest"? For most people reading this feels like being excluded. Again: Maybe you do not feel that way, I just write what I am pretty sure the majority of grown up and intelligent people "get" when reading this.

Generally the problem it is not always WHAT you say, it is very often only HOW you say it.
Would be an interesting experiment that you send me a post you would like to post before you post it. I rewrite it so that _I_ think it has the same information but is not offending. We post my version and see what happens.

portreekid wrote in Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:00 am:
hans05 wrote in Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:18 am:@portreekid:
Before Reinhold Messner and Peter Habeler ascended Mt. Everest without supplemental oxygen, ALL of the climbers and physicians predicted that they will die since the prevailing understanding was that human beings can not survive with that little oxygen. So you had thousands of 25+ years experienced climbers and doctors proven wrong.
I believe a community project should always strive to try to find new people trying new things. I repeat: If they fail it was their own decision. It is always possible to communicate doubts but still leave an open minded tolerant impression (see Richards post).
And IF in the current core-dev-team there is nobody who is interested in doing XY, that is NO reason to communicate in a "will-never-happen" style. You should radiate the message "If you are interested please join our team and give it a go. If you fail you learned a lot, if you succeed, well THANKS!".


That is right. But if doctors and climbers wouldn't have voiced their concern? Then it wouldn't have been an informed descision. I believe it is more beneficial new contributers are guided towards quick wins that will motivate them to do more in the future. Not all are into learning by hitting walls. Regarding "core-dev-team" they seem to be pretty elusive. Haven't met them yet. Just lots of people using glue and shoe string to build a wonderful awe inspiring Flightsim.


If doctors and climbers would have voiced their concern but still would have kept an open mind and be tolerant, they might have SUPPORTED the project anyways. They could have organized an expedition for Messner and Habeler and see what comes out of it. In the end the two did the ascent more or less without support in alpine style (as opposed to expedition style). For me that is comparable to some people deciding to fork FlightGear because they are so disappointed by what the non-existent-dev-core-team-and-if-that-was-true-who-has-commit-rights-to-the-source-code does -or doesn't do- that they rather have a go themselves.
Is that what you want? Really?
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Re: Satellite/Photo Scenery?

Postby curt » Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:45 pm

For the casual readers of this forum, please pay attention to who adds content to the subject of this thread and carries the topic forward, versus a few users who seemingly have only one issue on their minds, and that is to pursue the same old personal arguments and rants about process and treatment and fairness and other 'meta' issues not at related to the thread.
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Re: Satellite/Photo Scenery?

Postby hans05 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:07 pm

I do NOT have only one issue on my mind. This is one of many issues on my mind.
I am almost sure that is true for everyone else involved in this discussion.

I would like to know why it was necessary to write such a thing, Curt. If you want us to stop (olala, some criticism in my this forum, that can not be) then say so. We are all grown up and will stop if you tell us so.
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Re: Satellite/Photo Scenery?

Postby Thorsten » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:15 pm

I think the main problem in your communication is that you treat other people like they were children.


Just randomly quoting a few things...

Also, I'm sure we can all see this community is dying.


There's literally about 30 active people in the community. 30. You are developing for 30 people.


And as i said to you, there has been no abusive language here. there is no other meaning to the word prick,


The caliphate continues


none of the programmers offer real support


and time is lost to make Shuttle (beautiful) but with which no one flies ...


(...)

I mean, how seriously would you treat the proposition that FG has 30 active users, knowing the download and terrasync access statistics pointing to something like 150.000+? How seriously would you treat the proposition that 'no one' flies the Shuttle - when I happen to know how many people are willing to pay 15 Euro for the deluxe version of the manual? How seriously would you treat the theory that there's no abusive language when two randomly selected dictionaries both say otherwise?

How is this kind of debate not daycare level?

If people want to be taken seriously, they need to talk sense - then they'll be taken seriously. But to ask that someone who claims FG has 30 users is taken seriously is absurd, sorry.

***

Well, let's do another fact check. While this conversation has been going on, I have

* Enhanced someone's custom scenery project with a volcano
* helped a user with the emission animation
* explained to another user how the scenery works and pointed him to how to get involved
*solved a rendering issue for a user
* acted on a user report by fixing a bug

In addition to doing my own experiments and developments.

What's your track record during that time? You might feel like championing for the common user, but if you look at the actual facts, it seems to be me who's actually giving a helping hand over and over. Not you.

Go figure - there's something badly wrong with your perspective.
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Re: Satellite/Photo Scenery?

Postby hans05 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:25 pm

Thorsten, in the first part of your post you are 100% right. The other user did also not communicate correctly.

The second part I find very embarrassing. Essentially what you are saying is "I achieved soooo much more for FG than you, that means I am generally right and you are wrong". That is basically back to old Thorsten which I chose to ignore some time ago.

But hey, Thorsten, Curt seems to want us to stop this. So I propose to stop this here (if only you manage to stop for once) and continue either in a new topic or per PM or not at all.
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Re: Satellite/Photo Scenery?

Postby hans05 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:26 pm

Oh, and BTW, my track record for the last 1 hour is playing with my three kids in our garden ;-)
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Re: Satellite/Photo Scenery?

Postby Thorsten » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:32 pm

I achieved soooo much more for FG than you, that means I am generally right and you are wrong


No, it doesn't mean that - I may well be wrong in what I say, and I'll correct myself if evidence turns up that this is so - but it does mean that I am generally helping out people - which is less obvious for what you do here.

So I propose to stop this here


Fine with me.
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Re: Satellite/Photo Scenery?

Postby curt » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:04 pm

[hans05 writes about spending time with his kids]

One of my dear friends (Bill) is enduring brain surgery right now to remove a tumor from behind his eye (this is happening right now as I type this.) So if your point is that you have kids, you treat them well, and are actually a descent guy outside of this forum, then I do believe it. I also am married 24 years, have 2 kids, 2 dogs, work a full time job in education, occasionally we take in foreign exchange students. My point is that we are all pretty decent people off the forum with lives and concerns and people that depend on us. Why not carry that forward here? Do you think the original poster is more interested in bashing Thorsten and this forum (like you appear to be), or trying to find a way to get photoscenery working, or at least understand more about the issues and challenges? This thread should be about moving forward with discussion and understanding of photoscenery. Is there anyone left that still wishes to discuss photoscenery, then go for it. Please, please please take your arguments and your rants somewhere else, and keep the discussion here on topic.
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Re: Satellite/Photo Scenery?

Postby EnricoC » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:12 pm

FG is capable of seriously outclassing FSX


I hope the painter was drunk when wrote this..........

Attached, a small video from a facebook friend's page..........FSX , Boarding Operations.
https://www.facebook.com/davide.pizzo2/videos/10216525605603859/

bye.
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Re: Satellite/Photo Scenery?

Postby legoboyvdlp » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:52 pm

Apparently you have to login to Facebook to view that.
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Re: Satellite/Photo Scenery?

Postby EnricoC » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:37 pm

yes , but i dont think is a problem.
if anyone were interested in seeing it, just go there.
The video was uploaded there

HOWEVER, I HAVE RECOMMENDED TO SEE TO ALL
BR
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Re: Satellite/Photo Scenery?

Postby wlbragg » Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:31 am

yes , but i dont think is a problem.

Well, yeah it is if you don't have a FB account and don't want one!
If you really want others to see your point maybe you should put it in a format that doesn't require them to join something.

I hope the painter was drunk when wrote this..........

I doubt it, most likely stoned cold sober. Is this type of trash talk really necessary? I take offense to it and would kindly ask that you stop with the negativity.

I tried to stay quite and just let it slide, but your shouting provoked a response.
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Re: Satellite/Photo Scenery?

Postby Thorsten » Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:24 am

Sorry, not interested in Facebook either.

If you have a point to make, please make it respectfully and such that everyone can access the information, otherwise it'll be ignored.
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Re: Satellite/Photo Scenery?

Postby curt » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:36 am

I followed the facebook link (logged into facebook) and the content is no longer available, or at least is not available to my account. Enrico, obviously your post has been read and acknowledged (not ignored) but none of us can see the link. Your video title was FSX, boarding operations. I hope all your passengers were able to get seats they were happy with. The last few flights I've taken have been with my family and I've given up the window seat to my kids, maybe you can come up with an interior design that is all window seats (and each seat has a set of flight controls and instruments ... just in case the pilots are somehow incapacitated during the flight?) :-)
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