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Shader normalmap and reflection on planes disappeared in fut

An exciting "new" option in FlightGear, that includes reflections, lightmaps, the particle system etc.. A lot is yet to be discovered/implemented!

Shader normalmap and reflection on planes disappeared in fut

Postby helijah » Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:20 am

Being always willing to update and improve my models, I use FG 2020.4.0 which I compile every 2 or 3 days.
And today surprise!
No more normalmap, no more reflection ... I'm testing other models, the reference c172r ... the same. Nothing.
Great. So for authors of one or two models, no worries it will take an hour or two.
But with 300 models, which I haven't even finished updating for these effects yet, here I am having to redo everything from scratch ... And of course it is to me that people will write to complain . Not here or elsewhere.
So thank you gentlemen. Congratulations.
Improving things is good. But breaking everything just for fun is not necessarily the best idea :(
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Re: Shader normalmap and reflection on planes disappeared in

Postby merspieler » Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:32 am

the next branch (2020.4) may break.

If you want a stable, non breaking version, use the LTS.

also... have you considered, that it wasn't intended to break but is a bug/regression?
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Re: Shader normalmap and reflection on planes disappeared in

Postby helijah » Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:50 am

merspieler wrote in Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:32 am:the next branch (2020.4) may break.

If you want a stable, non breaking version, use the LTS.

also... have you considered, that it wasn't intended to break but is a bug/regression?


I know it well, but if you want planes to fly, the versions must evolve in the right direction. In this case destroying effects without warning or having an alternative solution, without warning the aircraft developers, without giving an alternative solution is not a correct solution. I don't care if I have a stable version. I create models for others to use. And I spend all my free time on it. If it is to redo what I have already done by wasting hours looking for how to redo what worked very well where is the interest. Moreover as I say the users who will complain, will turn to me, not to you and not to the developers of FG. And what should I say to them? Because if 2020.4.0 is not the stable version, it will eventually become so.
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Re: Shader normalmap and reflection on planes disappeared in

Postby merspieler » Wed Aug 18, 2021 10:44 am

helijah wrote in Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:50 am:Because if 2020.4.0 is not the stable version, it will eventually become so.


Right, but when this regression is still in there, you can legitimately say, that this is an issue that needs to be addressed before the release so the new LTS won't have that issue.

So the current and then new LTS won't have that issue -> no work for you.
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Re: Shader normalmap and reflection on planes disappeared in

Postby Alant » Wed Aug 18, 2021 11:32 am

It is probably best to send this to the devel email list.
Alan

P.S.
I have just checked and they are already looking at the problem.
Last edited by Alant on Wed Aug 18, 2021 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shader normalmap and reflection on planes disappeared in

Postby helijah » Wed Aug 18, 2021 11:35 am

merspieler wrote in Wed Aug 18, 2021 10:44 am:
helijah wrote in Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:50 am:Because if 2020.4.0 is not the stable version, it will eventually become so.


Right, but when this regression is still in there, you can legitimately say, that this is an issue that needs to be addressed before the release so the new LTS won't have that issue.

So the current and then new LTS won't have that issue -> no work for you.


Development is a two-way street. There is no flight without the developers of FG, but there is no FG without the planes. And
with more than 300 planes out of the 500 available i am somewhat responsible for a lot of passion for FG. The least of things is at least to offer something as a replacement before removing what exists. The links to the shadert or effects wiki are empty. There is no information and no example to upgrade airplanes with the new functionality. If there is nothing, how will the evolutions happen?
Devolepment is not one-sided!
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Re: Shader normalmap and reflection on planes disappeared in

Postby merspieler » Wed Aug 18, 2021 12:43 pm

Yeah... it's two way... and "They broke it intentionally" is pretty much one way...

Instead you could have asked (or started by looking at the commits), if the changes to this were intentional and if not, report is as a bug and not blaming them for breaking things.

Improving things is good. But breaking everything just for fun is not necessarily the best idea


Again, next may break at times... if you want a relyable stable version use LTS
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Re: Shader normalmap and reflection on planes disappeared in

Postby helijah » Wed Aug 18, 2021 2:12 pm

Why do I need a stable version? I don't pretend to take myself for a pilot. And I have done the tour of practically all the existing simulators and having existed, for more than 40 years. And anyway it's not voluntary changes or not that will prevent me from finding a solution. It's just sometimes worth remembering that FG is not just a flight simulator designed for 3 or 4 people and thinking of users before we think of yourself is a good thing.

Results after 4 hours of research:
Image
Image
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Re: Shader normalmap and reflection on planes disappeared in

Postby benih » Wed Aug 18, 2021 2:17 pm

What was the problem and how did you fixed it?
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Re: Shader normalmap and reflection on planes disappeared in

Postby wkitty42 » Wed Aug 18, 2021 2:39 pm

helijah wrote in Wed Aug 18, 2021 11:35 am:with more than 300 planes out of the 500 available [...]

FWIW: relatively minor correction...
i just updated my FGAddon (aka the default FG hanger) trunk... there are 572 craft directories containing 818 *-set.xml files for all of the available craft variants...
i guess it depends on how one counts "available craft"... if one counts only the directories, there are 572 craft but if one counts the *-set.xml files, there are 818 craft ;)
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: Shader normalmap and reflection on planes disappeared in

Postby wkitty42 » Wed Aug 18, 2021 2:41 pm

helijah wrote in Wed Aug 18, 2021 2:12 pm:Why do I need a stable version?

if you don't want any breakage like you are seeing (or have just seen if the bug is already fixed) then the LTS stable is the version you want... if breakage is not a huge problem, then the unstable next branch is the one to use...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: Shader normalmap and reflection on planes disappeared in

Postby helijah » Wed Aug 18, 2021 3:07 pm

As is often the case on this forum, there are still comments of no interest and no real reflection :(

When we look closely: ARADO AR 234 = 3 file -set
Dhc 3: 4 -set files
737NG: 5 -set files
etc ...

Obviously there are many more -set than planes available. This kind of remark does nothing and tries to ridicule me for free. It is neither smart nor useful here!

And that explains even better why I come less and less on this forum of intolerant and pretentious people!
It is a shame to see this around such a successful and well done project. Well almost because many only have respect for their work without worrying about others :(
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Re: Shader normalmap and reflection on planes disappeared in

Postby Alant » Wed Aug 18, 2021 3:48 pm

I have highlighted this thread on the devel list.
Helijah - could you please describe the problem you are seeing, and give an example showing what to look for.
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Re: Shader normalmap and reflection on planes disappeared in

Postby helijah » Wed Aug 18, 2021 3:58 pm

I've been trying for years to explain that xml files should be properly written, cleanly indented so that anyone can parse them easily. Like no one wants to listen or hear. I dropped. I hack in my corner and I warn when there is a problem. But I will not go further because anyway it will fall on me in the end. I'm tired. I will therefore continue to make clean and well organized files for the greatest pleasure of the users without worrying about the rest And I would return even less on this forum.

I spent hours trying to figure out why my problem was there and I ended up finding old shader and effects files to replace the existing ones. But since everything is disorganized and poorly designed I could not say more. The main one being that I can continue to work for all of you, improve my models and create new ones.
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Re: Shader normalmap and reflection on planes disappeared in

Postby legoboyvdlp » Wed Aug 18, 2021 4:21 pm

never stopped working here; here is an image with deliberate exaggeration ...

Image


Perhaps the latest change to FGData may have corrected whatever it was that you were seeing ... there was a commit about two hours after you made your post, which restored backwards compatibility. https://sourceforge.net/p/flightgear/fg ... 778bd6d51/

So, perhaps you could try pulling FGData again?

I do think it's a bit strange to think that there was some sort of deliberate or malicious intent. Just to reinforce what has been said, if you're using -next, it's undergoing rapid and intense change, with new features like HDR; hopefully at some point in the not-too-distant future, a replacement for PUI. Ever since 2020.3 was released there was an understanding that -next was going to be particularly unstable.
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