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Landmass problem

An exciting "new" option in FlightGear, that includes reflections, lightmaps, the particle system etc.. A lot is yet to be discovered/implemented!

Landmass problem

Postby abassign » Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:31 pm

I notice this problema with Landmass shader option:

Without landmass set:

Image

With landmass set:

Image

My compuer is Intel i7-4700MQ the GPU is integrated in the CPU render system is MESA 3.0 17.0.7 ed OS is Linux MInt 18.1

There are two types of problems:

The first is the presence of areas with completely false colors:

Image

And the second is the presence of a pixellation on the green and concrete areas in the airport zone:

Without landmass:

Image

With landmass:

Image

It is a pity this problem as the landmass option allows to greatly improve the quality of images with mountains and pasture areas, as we can see very well in this image:

Without landmass:
Image

With landmass:
Image
Last edited by abassign on Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Landmass problem

Postby Richard » Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:35 pm

Intel HD Graphics 4600 has 20 Execution Units - maybe this aren't enough to support all shader options at max
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Re: Landmass problem

Postby Thorsten » Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:49 pm

Isn't MESA the software emulation of a graphics card? If so, you can count yourself lucky it runs at all...
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Re: Landmass problem

Postby lomar » Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:56 pm

I used to have a notebook with an HD Graphics 4000 and it would run with all graphics settings maxed without any glitches(with low fps though). so i don't think that a 4600 would not be capable of running FG
About the MESA software, i have no idea of what it is supposed to do. Never heard of it(i suppose that it may be causing the problems).
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Re: Landmass problem

Postby abassign » Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:23 pm

Meanwhile, thank you for your interest in the problem. I think that there are two distinct problems:
I've only noticed the blur in fake colors lately, I'd like to understand what they are producing. Then there are only those, what is it ?

Meanwhile, thank you for your interest in the problem. I think that there are two distinct problems:

I've only noticed the blur in fake colors lately, I'd like to understand what they are producing. Then there are only those, what is it?
It looks like a rural area, we select Rendering Options -> Scenary Layers:

Region Specific:
Image

Global:
Image

Global Alternatives:
Image

At this point I think the problem is the specific region-specific texture, but I do not know what it's called, so I can not see how it is built. If anyone can tell me the name and where it is, I can do some tests.
It may be a GPU rendering problem, but being the very common GPU, it may be useful to correct the problem.

The second problem of pixelation that occurs when activating the "Land mass" always occurs for any "Scenary Layers", which I suspect is also present for other GPU configurations, and is therefore probably due to an incorrect configuration of the 'Land mass effect'.
If we look at an enlargement of the concrete pitch at the end of the runway:

Without land mass effect:
Image

With land mass effect:
Image

This effect seems excessive on this type of material, I do not know how the effect is built but it is obvious that it does not work with all the materials, I think it would be excluded for the concrete, and also for the grass of the runway.

Can anyone do a quick test?

Thank you
Last edited by abassign on Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Landmass problem

Postby bugman » Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:54 pm

Mesa is the Linux (and BSD, Haiku, etc.) OpenGL implementation. It is currently up to version 17, so 10.0.x is quite old now. And I don't know how well the Intel Mesa driver is for OpenGL 3.0 back at version 10.0 from almost 4 years ago, but it is likely to be an old driver issue.

Regards,
Edward
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Re: Landmass problem

Postby abassign » Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:59 pm

You're right ... I'm wrong to transcribe the version number, my is the 17.0.7, now I immediately corrected my first post and apologized for the mistake :oops:
Last edited by bugman on Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: No need to quote the entire previous post.
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Re: Landmass problem

Postby Thorsten » Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:21 am

@bugman:
Mesa is the Linux (and BSD, Haiku, etc.) OpenGL implementation.


But he's trying to describe the device driver (I hope) - and if the device driver is shown as MESA, that's usually not good as far as I know because it implies there's no HW acceleration. The device driver for an intel chipset under Linux should be i915 or intel.


@abassin:

Since no such problem occurs on either nvidia or nouveau drivers for three different cards - the oldest a good 10 years by now (which is what I can test) and since the AMD users haven't reported any problem either and since someone even reported everything fine on a similar chipset, it seems likely at that point that the issue is with the graphics driver.

Maybe it is simply buggy, or maybe the FG-side GLSL uses a shady expression that's processed fine by almost any other driver - in any case it can't be fixed without identifying the line in the code that makes it fail.

The best bet would seem to upgrade/downgrade graphics drivers to see whether it goes away.

Otherwise you probably need to consider the selected quality level unsupported for the chipset you have.
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Re: Landmass problem

Postby erik » Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:56 am

Thorsten wrote in Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:21 am:and if the device driver is shown as MESA, that's usually not good as far as I know because it implies there's no HW acceleration.

That's not correct. MESA just points to the open source project which implements OpenGL. But is has several hardware accelerated backends. The Nouveau driver for NVidia is one of them. And Intel also contributes to MESA for it's hardware accelerated drivers.

Update: see for example:
https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php ... 2#p1651672

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Re: Landmass problem

Postby Thorsten » Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:12 am

On my nouveau setup, I get the device driver identified as nouveau, not mesa. If mesa is the general OpenGL implementation, then the information is almost meaningless to understand why a particular shader doesn't run because it depends on what the graphics driver is.
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Re: Landmass problem

Postby erik » Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:05 am

Best you can do is run glslangValidator on the shaders and hope everybody follows the standards.

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Re: Landmass problem

Postby legoboyvdlp » Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:27 am

Abbasing, I've seen a fair amount of those issues -- the concrete one and pixxelation of the grass definitely. It may just be weak Intel GPUS?
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Re: Landmass problem

Postby enrogue » Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:50 pm

I have a test laptop with the following processor:

Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-3320M CPU @ 2.60GHz

which according to Intel ARK has an HD4000 @ 650MHz-1.2GHz with 16 EU

It's running Ubuntu 17.04

I tried with the graphics turned right up & took some screenshots:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

You can see that it's using the Mesa DRI driver (so accelerated), and that the issue appears only when all of the following sliders are at maximum: Landmass, Transition, and Agriculture

If you drop *any* of those sliders down one step, the issue goes away - none of the other sliders affect it

The screen shot was taken at LOWI, with the F-86F installed from the main hangar via the installer

If anyone can tell me how to get debugs of shaders code I can take a look at that - I can't see anything in the logs

It's running in CullDrawThreadPerContext mode
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Re: Landmass problem

Postby Thorsten » Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:53 pm

If anyone can tell me how to get debugs of shaders code I can take a look at that - I can't see anything in the logs


My techniques for debugging GLSL. You want to delve into Shaders/agriculture* which is what is running where you see the weird colors.
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Re: Landmass problem

Postby abassign » Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:35 pm

I have made further tests on the Landmass and Transition parameter. This movie shows how to change an agricultural area located in a European region (Region-Specific). The strange thing is that if you move to other areas (San Francisco, London suburbs) there are no areas with this defect.



Obviously I would like to solve this problem, I hope someone can reproduce that problem.
But what do European agricoltural areas have in particular compared to other areas? I think it may be a difference in the png file (or png files), but what is the png file/files that generates those areas, does anyone know it?
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