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Beware Scammers!

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Beware Scammers!

Postby M65GET » Wed Jan 25, 2017 5:08 pm

My wife tried to surprise me recently, she came across ProFlightsimulator.com, impressive website. She purchased the download + diskset as a gift. When I installed this, it was clearly Flightgear! I called them out using their service ticket, was promised in 3 emails a full refund. I disputed this with our card issuer, explained the situation, and have a case. BEWARE!
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Re: Beware Scammers!

Postby Gijs » Wed Jan 25, 2017 5:20 pm

Hi,

Fortunately you've quickly discovered it's a scam. In most cases credit card companies seem to be willing to cancel such payments. In case you haven't seen it yet, you can read our statement on this matter at http://www.flightgear.org/help/flightge ... statement/
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Re: Beware Scammers!

Postby Michat » Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:51 pm

Now I feel bad for your poor wife.

As we can see again bastards, are causing moral damage besides plagiarism, Scamming.... and so forth.

Either not a good people to deal with credit card.

I wish you to get in time to cancel the payment. If so, will be your turn to surprise (on the positive way) her (happy ending).

Thanks for sharing your alert.
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Re: Beware Scammers!

Postby M65GET » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:47 pm

Yesterday we won on the 97.00 downloaded product credit dispute, but ProFlightSim did ship the 4 disk set, lost on that one. Better to lose almost 50$ rather than 150$! My wife said "lesson learned". Thanks for the comments!
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Re: Beware Scammers!

Postby Clive2670 » Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:05 pm

I think this needs to be "put top of the list" and advertised by flightgear so other flightgear(ers) don't get scammed. Maybe put this as a permanent link somewhere on the forum?
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Re: Beware Scammers!

Postby M65GET » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:52 pm

I second that! Get the word out! All permissions granted!
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Re: Beware Scammers!

Postby Johan G » Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:59 pm

Clive2670 wrote in Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:05 pm:I think this needs to be "put top of the list" and advertised by flightgear so other flightgear(ers) don't get scammed. Maybe put this as a permanent link somewhere on the forum?


We have various articles and statements around:


There are also some more forum topics on the issue:


There are also some third party sites mentioning the various vendors as well:


The bottom line is that if you are not suspicious about the product you are about to order, you would probably not search the web for more info and thus would not find out about FlightGear. "You Do Not Know What You Do Not Know."

I should probably also mention that anyone is free to sell FlightGear, even under a new name (if they have modified it), provided that they follow the terms set out in the GNU General Public License, version 2 (GNU GPLv2). In particular they need to make the source code available for their customers, and under the same license.

* One of the many points made in that topic is that we should avoid the temptation to use "black hat SEO techniques" as that could wipe us off Google's search hits.
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Re: Beware Scammers!

Postby curt » Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:25 pm

I had someone email me recently that ordered proflightsim (digital version) and then subsequently discovered it was just FlightGear. 1. proflightsim is selling a download link to something that could be downloaded entirely for free. 2. This person contacted proflightsim for a refund, but received a reply that "due to the digital nature of your purchase, we are unable to offer a refund."

I notice that they have removed their claim of "100% rock solid guarantee", so they no longer promise to give refunds. Promising this and then not doing it was probably illegal in their country.

You don't know what you don't know, but if my advice to anyone who made a purchase with them, requests a refund, yet finds themselves in a similar situation: Open up a claim with your credit card company. You can claim the product is substantially different from what was advertised (misleading advertising.) My experience is that credit card disputes usually tip in favor of the consumer and not the seller. It takes some extra work on your part to get your money back, but in most cases it should be possible. In my view, the more disputes that stack up against this vendor, the better off the world will be. They aren't trying to serve the customer in any way, they just extract as much $$$ as possible and run.
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Re: Beware Scammers!

Postby nulln » Thu May 04, 2017 6:12 am

A little suggestion to the owners of FlightGear: Release FlightGear under a license that says "you can modify flightgear, download its source, but you're not allowed to sell it or profit from it" if it isn't already. If it is already like that, sue them lol
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Re: Beware Scammers!

Postby Thorsten » Thu May 04, 2017 4:46 pm

Actually we want to enable people to make modifications and if applicable make a profit from it. Think of an aircraft manufacturer using FG as a demo or promotional tool for instance - the GPL guarantees that we get to benefit from paid work - since the code has to remain open, we can go and merge all useful bits.
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Re: Beware Scammers!

Postby Johan G » Sat May 06, 2017 4:04 pm

In addition a change of license would require permission from all of the contributors. ;)
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I too recently got scammed! ! ! Here is what I did.

Postby GeorgeRace » Thu Nov 23, 2017 3:11 pm

I am so pleased that I discovered FlightGear and this web site! I am a pilot, but at 81 years old, not doing any flying unless it is with someone else! I discovered FlightGear quite by mistake, after I had ordered "VirturalPilot3D".
What a scammer they are! There should be ways to get out the word, and put them out of business. Unfortunately, what they are doing is allowed by the rules of GPL/GNU.
Just in case it may be of help to someone else, below is a copy of the email I just sent them. Please feel free to use any part of it if you were also scammed and looking to get back your monies.
A new member of FlightGear, have a great time trying to get it all together and working. I can be reached at george at mrrace.com if you need any further information.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear VirturalPilot3D:
I have sent you several emails inquiring about the almost $200 that I was charged for what I though was a $39 set of DVD's.
I have not had any response, and I have sent several emails to different email addresses you have listed.

Consequently, I contacted American Express and ask them to withhold your payment. I also explained to them how your web site is being deceptive and taking advantage of the GPL/GNU software rules to sell and distribute someone else's work, as coming from your organization, which of course we know it is not!

The reason I ask for my payment back, is that shortly after I ordered, I discovered that you are simply selling what can be downloaded free from the FlightGear site.
And on top of that, you are selling outdated version of all the various files.
I know that you are doing this to make money, and it does cost you to upkeep a web site, have DVD's made, etc...
But, if you are selling this product, which is legitimate for you to do, under the rules of GPL/GNU, you should at least be selling the latest 2017 versions of all the files.

Your web site makes it sound like you and your people, who you show on the web site, are the ones that are designing, building, and compiling the programs from original ideas. Nowhere do you give any credit to the many thousands of hours, and the volunteer software writers that are actually doing all the work that you are simply taking and making money from.

I find that very deceptive, and although not illegal for you to do, a very underhanded way to take advantage of the folks who do so much to keep FlightGear alive and well, and up to date for us end users to enjoy.

Yesterday I received the DVD package by UPS. I noticed that It was sent from a Stateside address. I did throw the bag away, as it was left out in the rain when delivered. I notice that on all the DVD packages it says there is no refund or return of the material due to the nature of the software on the DVD's.

If you want me to return the set of 4 DVD's to your supplier, please have them send me a prepaid UPS return label and I will get them packaged up and on the way back.

If I do not hear from you in 30 days or less, I will donate the set of DVD's to a local EAA Chapter, so any of the younger members can install your outdated programs and files on their home computers. Hopefully this may spark some additional interest in them becoming Pilots, and somewhere in the future join the ranks of us who are.

Sincerely,
George Race
Albion, MI U.S.A.
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Last edited by Gijs on Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Obfuscate email address to prevent spam
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Re: Beware Scammers!

Postby wkitty42 » Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:25 pm

FWIW: i wouldn't donate them to anyone... not without a full comparison of the originals to ensure that they are not infested with something... i'm waiting to see the first report that some of these scammers are adding bitcoin miners to their distribution and thus stealing your CPU/GPU cycles to calculate digital monies for themselves without giving you anything in return...

plus, in the US, if you are over 65 (i think it is) you can return a product at any time for up to a year after the purchase and get a full and complete refund... it is the law...
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Re: Beware Scammers!

Postby GeorgeRace » Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:15 pm

Thanks, will keep that in mind!
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