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GitHub and FGMEMBERS

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GitHub and FGMEMBERS

Postby berkut » Fri Oct 21, 2016 6:50 pm

I'm not sure if any of you here have noticed,but theFGMEMBERS repo and GitHub it self seem to be down for quite some time,not just a minute or two...


Does anyone have more info on that?
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Re: GitHub and FGMEMBERS

Postby Hooray » Fri Oct 21, 2016 7:15 pm

Everything is still there, so it must be github related and unrelated to the nature of the repository.
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Daveculp

Postby daveculp » Fri Oct 21, 2016 7:30 pm

It appears there is a very large DDOS attack going on in the US. That could be the cause.
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Re: GitHub and FGMEMBERS

Postby berkut » Fri Oct 21, 2016 7:35 pm

I just want to know one thing...is it possible to save anything from FGMEMBERS if that whole thing goes down? There are months ,if not years of work and development.. I don't like the idea to do it all over again.

Not just FGMEMBERS but everything related to FlightGear that is hosted there.
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Re: GitHub and FGMEMBERS

Postby PINTO » Fri Oct 21, 2016 7:43 pm

Local repos would be able to reupload.

News re: DDOS attack: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12759520
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Re: GitHub and FGMEMBERS

Postby Hooray » Fri Oct 21, 2016 7:49 pm

Git is distributed by nature, so anything going into fgmembers will automatically be also made available to people tracking that repository (regularly).
Apart from that, legally, it would make sense to no just contribute to fgmembers but also other repositories/hangars.

Thus, even when it comes to FlightGear, my recommendation would be to create backups and try to "commit early & often", and to multiple repositories - using git, you can easily contribute (push) your work to more than one repository - and there is tons of free git hosting available these days.

Besides, you can also make your work available via p2p file sharing, i.e. in the form of a corresponding tarball/zip archive.

In general, your contributions are on the safe side if you always assume that flightgear.org and fgmembers could go down tomorrow, and contribute your work using more than just a single channel.

Finally, as a matter of fact with this assumption in mind, the non-distributed svn/subversion approach taken by fgaddon is technically inferior in comparison to a git-based, distributed, approach. However, on legal grounds, fgmembers is much more likely to be affected in a major way - whereas there definitely is a technical hurdle when it comes to recreating fgaddon - however, the flightgear project has a long-standing history of solving such challenges in a swift fashion once they do become real (think CVS/git migration, seedwiki/mediawiki, avsim/forum, gitorious/sourceforge etc)

As long as you understand how git works, and as long as you can safely assume that there are at least a handful of people using, and thus mirroring, fgmembers - it is unlikely that a shutdown scenario will necessarily impact fgmembers massively - with the obvious exception that there is a certain challenge when it comes to setting up a new remote from scratch, as most people will not be too familiar with the specifics - we've seen that even being the case here whenever a repository URL changed.

However, as long as your work is regularly committed to a public git repository that is also regularly pulled from by many users, dataloss is unlikely to occur - which is one of the strengths of the distributed approach, which is also why this kind of setup is used for other FlightGear resources, including the SimGear/FlightGear source code - mainly due to a lesson learnt from the "infamous cvs/coffee incident".
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Re: GitHub and FGMEMBERS

Postby curt » Fri Oct 21, 2016 8:41 pm

I haven't seen a service yet that didn't have occasional down time. As others have mentioned, git is distributed and replicates the full repository and all it's history to every person that clones and keeps their repository up to date. (Assuming the user hasn't done a shallow clone to work around inefficiencies with git as a mechanism for storing and distributing binary assets.)

For whatever it's worth, Hooray frequently speaks of the cvs server coffee incident ... but to my recollection which is now fairly foggy, the actual switch over was discussed, planned, controlled, deliberate, and performed on our own time table. The mention of coffee spilled was made by James as a figurative joke after the transition was complete. No actual coffee was spilled on any actual hardware as far as I can remember, and there wasn't any specific incident that put the cvs repository in jeopardy. Servers do occasionally suffer break downs in hardware from time to time, but that is all in a days work and it is what backups and responsible maintenance are for.

I'm sure github is fine and I'm sure this won't be the last temporary glitch that will befall their system ... but I'm also sure they have good backups and a good admin team on the job so I'm definitely not worried about their service or their content being at risk.
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Re: GitHub and FGMEMBERS

Postby PINTO » Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:22 pm

GitHub isn't down - check the link I posted. There's a DDOS attack on a DNS server which is affecting multiple sites. The DNS is down. GitHub is fine.

Here's another article, this one from CNN. http://money.cnn.com/2016/10/21/technology/ddos-attack-popular-sites/index.html
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Re: Daveculp

Postby wkitty42 » Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:31 pm

daveculp wrote in Fri Oct 21, 2016 7:30 pm:It appears there is a very large DDOS attack going on in the US. That could be the cause.

this is definitely the cause... any systems using DYN.COM for their DNS servers are affected... twitter is completely inaccessible to me at this time... i didn't have any problems checking out github when i was making my rounds... here's a (partial) list of affected sites... not everyone will be affected by this attack...

  1. Twitter
  2. SoundCloud
  3. Spotify
  4. Netflix
  5. Reddit
  6. Disqus
  7. PayPal
  8. Basecamp
  9. Business Insider
  10. CNN
  11. Esty
  12. Github
  13. Guardian.co.uk
  14. Imgur
  15. HBO Now
  16. Pinterest
  17. Recode
  18. The Verge
  19. Wired

https://www.nixcraft.com/ddos-attack-against-dyn-managed-dns-service-21-oct-2016/53/

https://www.dynstatus.com/incidents/nlr4yrr162t8
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Re: GitHub and FGMEMBERS

Postby Hooray » Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:53 pm

Curt wrote:Hooray frequently speaks of the cvs server coffee incident ... but to my recollection which is now fairly foggy, the actual switch over was discussed, planned, controlled, deliberate, and performed on our own time table.


Believe it or not (or just look it up in the archives ...) the original cvs/git migration, i.e. the actual events leading to it (disk errors on the server) were actually posted by you back then, referring to off-list discussions regarding "operation silver dart" you've had with Tim Moore previously: https://sourceforge.net/p/flightgear/ma ... /25168107/
You are correct though in that James made a tongue-in-cheek reference to the whole cvs/disk error issue subsequently, but it still is what it is, and it still is kinda amusing to refer to it as such: https://sourceforge.net/p/flightgear/ma ... /25312355/

And that's all that I was trying to say, the project generally does respond to "external factors" if it really has to, but it may take a long time until that actually happens (which isn't necessarily a bad thing though, see the fgdata split). :D
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Re: GitHub and FGMEMBERS

Postby curt » Fri Oct 21, 2016 10:07 pm

My point though was that there was no single "incident" that forced a move in this case... just an accumulation of events that guided us away from self managed servers (and having to maintain and fix any hardware and software problems) to leveraging public/free services as much as possible. And for sure it is fair for people to disagree about an appropriate timeline for migrating to new technology or new infrastructure, but an existing workable system means there is no rush. Sometimes chasing the latest popular fad leads to more trouble than benefit (any web developers out there?) But sometimes that fad is actually a good idea and becomes the mainstream way of doing things (i.e. git.) But no tool or technology solves every problem efficiently.
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Re: GitHub and FGMEMBERS

Postby legoboyvdlp » Mon Oct 24, 2016 11:16 am

Generally, a large website like GitHub would keep multiple backups?
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Re: GitHub and FGMEMBERS

Postby wkitty42 » Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:23 pm

those backups aren't worth a hoot if the service is blocked because of DDOS... that's what happened last friday...
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Re: GitHub and FGMEMBERS

Postby PH-JAKE » Tue Oct 25, 2016 5:26 pm

legoboyvdlp wrote in Mon Oct 24, 2016 11:16 am:Generally, a large website like GitHub would keep multiple backups?


Backups they have, what failed was the IP address look up, As in, "what IP address does github.com have?" Dyn knows, but was under attack, so couldn't tell you. If you used the github.com IP address directly things worked like a charm (which I experienced).
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Re: GitHub and FGMEMBERS

Postby Captainkool » Sat Dec 03, 2016 9:09 pm

Yeah, I think they are inactive. Aswell as OmegaHangar
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