Foxtrot15 wrote in Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:10 pm: I'm sure that the KSUU Crew has been noticed, and definitely raised some eyebrows. Despite being biased, I can say that we don't like shooting each other down that much, not to even talk of bombing. In fact, majority of our time is spent on formation flying and refuelling training. We do occasionally dogfight, but we do it duel style: both sides agreeing to the rules and keeping our weapons when the other side calls a time-out. Being one of the larger military groups, I can say that the probability of war simulation is rather low now.
Hey everyone:
I feel somewhat compelled to wade into this since efforts made by a group that includes myself may be in a small way partially responsible for some of the increased interest in "combat" simulation...
First, and most importantly, I am not really entitled to an opinion, since I am not a programmer and have contributed essentially nothing to this wonderful simulation. I offer my thoughts here only because I think they may be representative of a larger group of people, some of which are actively engaged in improving or creating within the flightgear world.
I know that it has been mentioned that the KSUU Crew has been becoming increasingly active. I hope that everyone (even those vehemently opposed to tactical/combat flight in this sim) can appreciate that this group of people are doing everything they can to be responsible and mature. From a flying/interaction standpoint, we are trying hard to establish rules that ensure that those who do not want to be involved are not. We have tried to create scenarios that focus on military facilities and airspace, and have tried to make it clear to everyone involved that we don't view inappropriate behavior positively. In my opinion, this has actually benefited the sim in a number of ways. There are a number of regular pilots who, prior to KSUU Crew, were known to engage civilian aircraft, ignore ATCs, etc., and now spend their time flying in formations, use appropriate flight, landing, and departure procedures, respect civilian aircraft, and are generally good neighbors. I honestly think that this informal group has something to do with that.
I do understand that there has been abuse in the past, and that some actors have simulated scenarios that were exceptionally distasteful. I can imagine how this has affected the opinions of many developers, as it is of concern to me as well. However, I do believe that there is nothing that can be done to "teach" good taste and appropriate behavior if there is no alternative outlet for those who do wish to play with extremes. In a lot of ways, I view the development of tactical applications very much like building skate/bike parks. No matter how large a majority want to enjoy a nice ride, there will always be someone wanting to push boundaries or take risks. By giving these types of people an outlet that is controlled and focused, we make life easier for everyone.
As Foxtrot15 mentions, we spend much of our time flying formation, practicing carrier landings, learning navigation techniques, and taking pictures! I know that some of the core members of the KSUU Crew envision a future time where we have a core crew that:
- understands the advantages and limitations of their position, airframe, weapons systems, team composition, etc, and are exceptionally competent not just in the art of flying, but in the arts of decision-making, teamwork, and management of forces;
- provides a test-bed for other types of development, such as advances in AI flight/guidance, stress/damage modelling, information sharing in MP settings (such as exists in todays air battle space), radar systems, etc.
Please understand that we don't aim to be a bunch of guys and gals running around shooting stuff. Ideally, our hope is that when we have events, we will have mission planning sessions, develop tactical plans, use appropriate systems for associated goals, and generally do a lot more than just make things go boom. In fact, in our first event, a capture the flag competition, not a single shot was fired by any aircraft involved because "strategy" was used in favor of aggression.
It isn't about violence, but rather creating challenge. In a 20-30 minute air engagement with a team-mate against a team of two, I may hit the fire button once or twice. In all likelihood, I will not see the resulting impact, as I have to move on to new issues, questions, decisions, etc... and chances are I am miles away from it in the first place. But in that 20-30 minutes, I have checked instruments dozens of times, I have considered and re-considered my fuel situation relative to my conserved energy and what I might be called to do to support my team, I have on countless occasions had to calculate multiple positions (friendly and adversary) using only my radar and the data on my VSD (I fly Richard's F-15), anticipate the intentions of others based on that information, and make and communicate a tactical decision that affects not only me, but my partner. This is an amazing thing that FG provides... and has provided me (a mid-thirties bureaucrat) with a wonderful new avenue to learn and grow. It has also led to me learning more about both the air-frames I fly (and fly with), the real-world tactics that are employed when using them, etc. It has, in my opinion, equipped me as a non-programmer with the ability to contribute to the efforts of the developers who create these great tools. More importantly, though, it is doing the same for people who DO have the tools (skills, ability, and time) to improve the sim from a programming standpoint, meaning we all benefit.
I think that the majority of the folks who are getting more motivated toward these types of efforts are less interested in "explosions", "crashes", and the other evidence of violent encounters and more interested in the challenge that can be presented by competition. I am not going to be "that guy" and say that one kind of flight is better than another. But I know that I personally would not know the air-frames I fly nearly as well as I do if I didn't have the prospect of friendly competition driving me to put so much time into it.
It was mentioned in this thread that perhaps a separate thread to discuss these types of applications, and what needs to be done (and what limits need to be set/understood) should be established. I would welcome such an effort, and I know a great number of smart, motivated people exist who would love an organized effort that served not just to create tools for our efforts, but that serve the greater FG community.
In the end, I am sure that the majority of the folks who are interested in this type of development are keenly aware of the reservations many of you have.
I know we (they) are willing to listen, to be respectful, and to be good collaborators. Please let me know when we are failing to demonstrate that.Sorry for the book.... and Happy New Year!