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FlightGear Newbie

Questions about the FlightGear organisation, website, wiki etc.

FlightGear Newbie

Postby Saint19 » Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:45 pm

Good Morning,

I'm pretty new to Civilian flight sims. Years ago I was into combat flight sims. But have been away for some time. I now realize I never REALLY learned about flying or being an aviator. These civilian flight sims seem very interesting. I've tried FSX and am interested in X-Plane, but don't know if I want to spend that kind of money....the demo doesn't give much time.

I've recently begun using FSX Standard. I've only purchased one add-on from Carenado. My question is I've noticed that even with full real settings, the FSX Cessna seems to be super stable compared to the 172 on FlightGear. In FG I am constantly having to compensate with the rudder until I reach cruise speed. Also the feeling in FSX seems...sluggish where as FG's feels more alive.

Oh and I'm not sure I've installed everything correctly because my graphics don't look like the screens I've seen of FG with trees and such even when flying out of LAX. Now granted I'm only doing places like Baton Rouge, LA or other smaller places. But all I see is a whole bunch of low detailed tiles at these places...not trees or anything. I'm not expecting FSX gfx however.

Also I wanted to thank you for a great sim. I love how it feels and just hope I can get it configured correctly. Here is what I'm looking for:

1. What it's like to fly and be a pilot. I can't because I'm legally blind. So a flight sim would be the closest I'd come.
2. Serviceable gfx so that I can kinda tell where I am with landmarks
3. Learning how to navigate using instruments etc.
4. Proper technique and learning about different systems.

Oh I forgot to mention I do have trouble around cities such as Baton Rouge. My system isn't the most powerful...but here it is:

Dell
AMD Athlon Ii x2 250 at 3.0ghz
Radeon 4550hd 1GB vRam(Newest Catalyst drivers)
4GB Ram

Thanx for your help.
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Re: FlightGear Newbie

Postby Michat » Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:23 pm

My warm wellcome to FG.

FG has a Bombable addon, so you can fly and dogfight also, this unique feature on FG. Yes X-plane demo is real torture, it is agresive. So imagine what to expect from it.


Thats a really good point
Yes Carenado, level D, Roger Willco..., a million of products. Well maybe FG has not that level of quality with panels, instead off, since first FGBoot you can feel how serious are physics in FG. About FS10 I have nothing good to say for that game.


First of all you may update your (GPU) drivers, also there is a check box in FGwizard, where you can select random vegetation.
So if you have it as checked, and still don't see trees your driver must be update. FG has Terrasync, that is used to download escenery and object automaticaly. See how to activate terrasync in wiki, but maybe is on by default.


If you have some accessibility problems, please be free to share with us your ideas. I'm very interested sharing ideas to improve as possible the FG's accessibility. Could be a good point for FG.


Search for 3-4-5 different category models, all you have to do is practice by flying, reading wiki articles and manuals.


Oh I see you are on ATI with new drivers. I think you should see trees, if you had activate it on the selection box.

Wellcome

Michat.
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Re: FlightGear Newbie

Postby Kabuki » Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:47 pm

I've installed the same version of flightgear on different machines, and gotten different results in terms of details. After flying a lot on my laptop, I installed it (from the same downloaded file) on a friends gaming system, and was blown away by the extra detail. E.g. I had never seen boats in San Francisco Bay before. There are settings you can experiment with to give you more or less detail. See the menu "view>rendering" and mess around. Also, "environment>weather" is a place where you can trade framerate for detail.

As for a learning tool, it's supurb. When I started to fly, I used to play around barnstorming and such. After a couple of years, I've become an obsessive navigator. I don't have internet access at home, so I go to a coffee shop with wifi, and download maps, plan flights with Google Earth and the mp server's 'nav' tab. I'm building a set of .kml navaids for Google Earth, and getting to know my planet better than I ever have before.

I've shown flightgear to professional pilots, showing them some route they actually fly, and they can recognize landmarks. One time, I had a pilot show me a route he regularly flys, in a plane that he flys... and he was telling me how to set the throttles, when to use flaps, etc. He was also noticing things on the instrument panel that I didn't pay attention to.

What's really cool is to use VOR and NDB to find your way to some recognizeable landmark or airport for the first time. It gives a very satisfying feeling to see that your skill was true.

On the downside, sometimes I think planes in flightgear are a bit too "twitchy". I notice a quick, immediate response from control inputs that don't seem realistic. Seems that inertia alone would provide more damping effect. The basic way you fly is correct, but there's a bit too much quick up/down/side/side movement for me to believe.

Fiightgear can be used to teach proper technique, but it won't force you to be a good and decent pilot. It does a better job of enforcing the laws of physics than it does for flying legally.

Generally, flightgear aircraft are unrealistically indestructable. E.g. a full throttle dive followed by a quick pull up won't hurt your engine or airframe (although there are exceptions).

It definitely has value as an educational tool, but you can learn a lot of bad habits without being mindful of reality vs. simulation. I guess there is some problem in the real world of people who have mastered simulated flight getting into real airplanes, thinking they know what they're doing. Definitely, combined with some realistic instruction, it can be an excellent learning tool. Or you can just play around. Or anything inbetween.
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Re: FlightGear Newbie

Postby wrench11062 » Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:01 pm

Hay!
Ever since Microsoft bought Sublogic in the what? the 80's Flight sims have cost mucho bucks..........And Flightgear is your savior for that. Save the cash for a vidcard or puter upgrade.
If you want to learn to fly, get the books. URL search the FAA.......Thats the standard and the RULES. Flightgear will give you the VISUAL's.................even, legally blind.... :) (just get a bigger screen, like mine, 73").
Prime example of what happens when you put a monkey in a capsule full of buttons and switches...Now, wheres that damn banana?...
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Re: FlightGear Newbie

Postby Saint19 » Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:20 pm

Thanx for all your replies. I tried to do some more flying last night by doing the turorial mission found in the manual. It is the one from KHRV to KLVK. However, it was extremely choppy even though I had unchecked all of the graphics. Because of this it was very difficult to control anything.

Then I decided to try FSX using the same route. It of course had some pretty neat gfx overall, and ran smoother. I used the Carenado 172. Again, it did not seem as lively and didn't have thta same feeling of being in the air. Although I did have to correct for "tourqe" or "P effect"...it wasn't near as much and seemed very stable. I guess that's why some people say it flies on rails. But it did run smoother making for an ejoyable experience. Problem is I kept feeling like somethiing from FLIGHT just wasn't there.

I would like to really enjoy FG. But I'm not sure I'll be able to...unless I fly in areas that aren't TOO populated Hehehe...thing is one day I want to graduate to flying those bigger airliners and such.

Regarding accessibility, for me it's more about reading dials. That can be a problem in many of the sims. I don't and can't afford to purchase Track-IR right now. So a quick way to zoom in like you have in FG is great.

I hope I can get FG running well enough to enjoy.
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Re: FlightGear Newbie

Postby Michat » Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:47 pm

Yes FS flies on rails (remember it's only a game).

We have whole city of Paris, do a flight test, check your frames rates, it's a very populated area.

If you have another screen you can use it like 2d instrument panel, maybe we' could improve dials accessibility too.

You don't need to pay for a ir tracker. With FG you can use FacetrackNoIR by free, also there are users that are controlling FG without jokes, just by moving their hands in the space, also there are people who control FG with voice, some other using brain waves.

:shock:

Its time you to forget FS and become 100% Fg pilot. In opposite than other privative simulation software, here in FG we can resolve problems. I prefer to say than in FG we speaking of solutions rather than problems.


Feel free to request help. See face tracker at wiki.flightgear.org.

There are several aircraft with good panels in FG, search it, test it , choose it the one you prefer.

Michat
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Re: FlightGear Newbie

Postby wrench11062 » Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:08 pm

HAy,
With all the eye candy off and its not what you think it should be, then you have reached the limitations of your machine. Even with machines that have more power and speed, you will experience Lag and momentary graphic
loading.
My machine is a Phenom II x6 1045T with 8gb ram. My graphics card is a AMD 6700 HD XFX radeon with 1gb of gddr5 mem. (the card is available for 99 bucks if you look for it) The card is adjustable, meaning you can overclock it.
Even doing this I experience lags and the above. Its a give and take issue, Like all who tread here, looking for tips and info it is fleeting, but like me I will never give up . :)
Flightgear is your 1st wise decision, use the cash to buy upgrades and use what a long term actor named Eastwood said. A man has to know his limitations. :)
Prime example of what happens when you put a monkey in a capsule full of buttons and switches...Now, wheres that damn banana?...
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Re: FlightGear Newbie

Postby Saint19 » Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:41 pm

Golly. It's hard to go wrong quoting Clint Eastowood. Regarding my video card, I have the Radeon 4550 because it was a decent price, but also because this Dell machine only has a 300w power supply. I don't think it can support a much more powerful video card. :cry: :cry: :cry:

I'll keep plugging away and see what I can work out. Does the FaceTracker require some sort of assembly?; as I'm afraid I'd not be very good at that. But I may give it a shot.
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Re: FlightGear Newbie

Postby Kabuki » Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:05 pm

Last night, I had my mind blown twice.

1. A few days ago I spotted some 3D glasses at a "dollar store". I bought a pair. In flightgear, there's a menu item under 'view' for 'stereoscopic options'. I found that 'anisitropic(?)' is the one that works with the 3D glasses. It took some tweaking of the distance to screen, and a bit of "just relax and let the magic happen", but then... wow. Just wow. It's not perfect, but in the Citation, which has a great panel, you can see *depth* on knobs and switches and stuff. Then look out the window, and ... wow. One thing I pretty much had to do was modify the dialog .xml file to change the range for the slider on 'distance to screen'. Who sits 10 meters from a screen, anyway??? :roll:

2. Paris custom scenery, available somewhere here... is absolutely mind blowing in its richness. I definitely do not have the power to fly at a decent framerate with my machine, but even at 4-8 fps it was amazing seeing all those landmarks. Wow. It occurs to me that San Francisco would be a feasable candidate for such a treatment, given that there is so much "typical" architecture... but then I don't know a thing about scenery modeling, and maybe the steep hills would pose a problem. OK, so how about Chicago, with its showcase gallery of modern architecture?

Who in the world created such a masterpiece? Formidable!

PS, I also figured out how to get a -decent- video recording. I will post some instructions by and by. It should be a faq.
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Re: FlightGear Newbie

Postby Saint19 » Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:46 am

YES!!! I figured it out. I was using the GUI to set the options and noticed...wait a minute. Although it says not 3d clouds...they were still there. I figured, maybe it's something in the way their rendered.

Then I tried using the menu while actually in the flight portion rather than the GUI. I kept the clouds but reduced the shader quality to 2. All is MUUUUUCH smoother. In fact I also noticed that this same menu allowed me to put trees and buildings. It actually works with treess and buildings.

Although I reduced the shader quality some, it still looks better than it did before and has much better performance. Mainly because I have some vegetation lighting and a smoother framerate.

Phew....I was starting to doubt I'd ever get this to work. I'm sure its not ALL the bells and whistles. But it's much better looking than earlier. Now I can enjoy this program and learn about it and flying.

So much to learn and questions to ask. I'm looking forward to getting to know this sim. I wonder when I'll go back to FSX. :P :P
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Re: FlightGear Newbie

Postby Michat » Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:36 am

I had a 4870x2, now bios corrupted, so now I need a legacy pci or pcie gpu to repair it. I become burn out with ATI.

FacetrackNoIr has a selection box for FG, but you need to configure FG side with internal properties. Read wiki.

When you fly with FS you are off line, are you connected on line to FG?. That could be a reason that you lag, other reason is that maybe your terrasync is working and is downloading models and classes for first time so the lag is hard.

I didn't find an Euro store where find those glasses. 3d Anaglyph is an adventure still pending for me. ATI Sucks MIchat. :cry:
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