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The state of things in Flight Gear

Questions about the FlightGear organisation, website, wiki etc.

Re: The state of things in Flight Gear

Postby vitos » Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:04 pm

Hooray wrote in Sat Aug 27, 2011 5:19 pm:Umm, seriously: from what I can see, FlightGear has never been in a better shape than it is in right now.

In fact, admittely FlightGear -as a software project- has actually been in a much worse shape for many years (no forums, no wiki, no bug tracker, no git repository, no build server, no formal release procedures etc)- still it somehow managed to stay around for over 10 years, despite all its deficiencies...


Nah, I had supposed that conversation is over. Ok then... Look, it does not matter how it looks now. It matters how it will go. That was all ok because not so many people had interested and not so many people had made some additions. With same way of management it could not stand long if new developers and users will arrive with same speed as now.

It had seemed all ok before Great Depression.

I tell You, it impossible to fly most of fine looking airports and crafts here already, especially in multiplayer, fps is too low. Current outdated graphical engine can not work fine with all that shaders already even in some regional airport, and in case if future additions would be made same way as now it will become impossible to fly anywhere on everything.

So some management changes will be needed, somehow strict changes. For example any plane will need to have multiplayer model made maybe, some stop on improvements will be needed until common work on graphical engine to make dynamical LOD will be started and finished, common rules on git model detail level will be needed, common rechecking of all code to find and fix most thin places in means of speed and memory leaks will be needed, so on. Main what it will stop to be personal thing, will become common thing with common plan.

It can be "for personal fun" only until few people are in. In case there thousands of users and developers for some it stops to be "for fun", to be exact for some importance feeling, and starts to be for money and common good, and that people starts to tell ones who do something what to do to keep all that thing alive. It's common way of software development.

People can argue something about "chaos model", 'freeflow development" and other nice sounding words, but it changes nothing. It's all bulls.it what can be adequate looking only until first really annoying and nearly nonremovable bug caused by intercrossing of tons of chaotically writ unstandardized code.

It gotta be avoided beforehand, while code size is not too big. But even some small propositions in that direction what was made by me had brought only scandals and no changes. Because it all not for common work but for personal ego glorification now. People who do something only for own ego could not agree with common rules, even if that rules goes for common good.

So, and I do not know if Flight Gear community will stand it or not, there's gotta be some big conflict in future. Not with me. I prefer peaceful leaving long before such things.
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Re: The state of things in Flight Gear

Postby emarkay » Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:09 pm

Be cool, man. As was once said elsewhere, "Ignore Alien Disorder".
If you can contribute, then do so, if not, then move along to something else.

AFAIK:
If it's an annoyance, ignore it.
If it is a threat, block it or defeat it.
if it is an assist, then apply it.
If it is information from a once trusted, but now questionable source, then trust it, but verify it.

As the great profits John and Paul once said (verily I say unto thee...), "Obla daa, Obla dee, La, la la la, Life goes on... "
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Re: The state of things in Flight Gear

Postby vitos » Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:12 pm

emarkay wrote in Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:09 pm:If you can contribute, then do so, if not, then move along to something else.


As I said previously, my contribution is warning to people who asks here, because it's reasonable to do bit more for people who asks but unreasonable to do more for project in current community state. It would be very nice if someone could read that and avoid of making my mistake, putting more than year of everyday wholeday programming efforts in something without real results even in means of common friendship. It would be even better in case someone could change way community goes. That topic was created especially for that purpose but I do not do something more. In case no one asks here I will not write no word here because for me it all clear as day.

So it's up to You, not to me. If you can contribute, then do so, if not, then move along to something else.

Life is very short and there's no time.
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Re: The state of things in Flight Gear

Postby emarkay » Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:04 am

Vitos, yes, I understand. I know English is not your native language, nor is Russian mine, but in the post Soviet world, may I call you Comrade?

I have devoted many hours of my free time to projects. from old family undertakings, to community endeavors, to "freebie" automotive hardware development to beta testing of various software releases. it is my own free will that I do this, and I also know, that when the effort expended exceeds the value returned, I exit with acknowledgement to those involved and sincerity to the cause.

As they say, "no hard feelings, eh?" as ways part, but, sometimes one has regrets, "what if's" and other questions, as they wander away...

FG and the scene of development of open source projects must be tolerant of many views. The unwise, the foolish, the clueless and the lost may get "suckered in" to something unworthy of their efforts, and to the project as a whole. The fault lies with them for their ignorance, yes, but moreso on the lack of vetting, the carelessness of rote-coding drones and the general disinterest of those who have done their best already, and to those fringe contributers, who "contribute" but do not validate. If one does the work of all, it is a great monument to the one. But, if many do the work of one, it is still a great monument to the one. Only when all do the work of all, then do all benefit.

Maybe I am not seeing the tree from the forest, but I do not think that one or two or more are causing a collapse or failure of anything here. Maybe just a shift; "It's evolution, baby" or maybe even a form of DEVO, (Duty now for the future!) but the overall project here seems to be moving forward. Walk away, back off, let those who know not know now, and those whore care care not, but to those that know and care, you, you must do your best, as you seem to have already done.

Sometimes, one looks around and pauses at the end of it all, with full awareness of what's been, and repeats the prose of another non-biblical John, " Did you ever get the feeling you've been cheated?" They then exit, stage left... But the show must go on.

Wow, did I just type all of that?

Regardless, I am but an observer, a tiny fish in a big sea. But I still can't get FS2.4 to run, and no one here seems to want to do anything about it with any urgency. OK, it's an annoyance, but I have more important things than FlightGear to do now.

Das Vedanya!

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Re: The state of things in Flight Gear

Postby vitos » Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:21 am

emarkay wrote in Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:04 am:may I call you Comrade?


You may, but it does not matter how You act. It matters what You do.

emarkay wrote in Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:04 am:But the show must go on.


For me it's not the show. It's life, sort of. Difference is what in show You may call The Who to make a number, they can break all their instruments at end, but they can break only their own instruments, not the stage itself. Next guys could bring their own instruments to continue.

In life some stupid "band" could destroy whole "stage", You know.

Moreover, if show was some sort of life then music what new guys could play would be defined by music of previous guys mostly. Few comparatively small mistakes of first band could make whole part of some next guys impossible.

If You can not see how yet then I can give You some point. Imagine it not as show but as building of some house, up instead of in wide. If some floor is weak then You can put one or too floors above it still. But weight of another one could be too much even if that another one floor is OK on itself. So some common plan is needed very to build some sky scrapper. The higher it planned the less You can do without accordance with that plan.

In case if Your rocket is higher than sky scrapper it triples in importance. Not plan, but plan, plan, plan. Not common but common, common, common.

emarkay wrote in Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:04 am:But I still can't get FS2.4 to run, and no one here seems to want to do anything about it with any urgency.


I did not try to do it. For me something what goes in wrong direction is uninteresting.

I had my part in it because it had looked what guys here wants... no, could want to go up really. But it seems You are right, it was only show and makeup "pilots". "Gay but not Enola" as some Russian joke could be translated.

emarkay wrote in Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:04 am:Das Vedanya!


Transcription is "dou sveedanya", it can be translated as "until meeting". Wish You best too.
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