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Helicopter realism -- or not? Real pilot tests?

Helicopter flying is completely different from flying a fixed-wing aircraft and thus requires different skills.

Re: Helicopter realism -- or not? Real pilot tests?

Postby ranger8 » Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:08 pm

Thanks Redneck, I'll look into that.

someguy, I look forward to the brain picking! it will help me remember alot of stuff I haven't thought about since school!

Groucho, I can understand why most sim pilots would give up on it. performing the required movements with a typical joystick setup would be difficult! I know I wouldn't be able to do it!

There are some pretty good hardware setups for helicopters on the market right now, but their a little pricey!
I have often thought of trying to put together one for market that was more reasonable and geared toward the desktop sim, with expansion capabilities. I may do that now!
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Re: Helicopter realism -- or not? Real pilot tests?

Postby HHS » Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:42 pm

Ranger8,

Welcome to FlightGear! :D

Beside the mentioned things our helicopter-fdm is really accurate and good. After testing X-Plane 9.67 some days ago, I have to say: we even allow to haver more detailed fdm's as we can adjust much more values and especially with research reports, as we used for the Bo105 and UH-1.

About hardware: I was thinking about buying one of this priceys, but: no way! They are mostly made for MSFS, so not that what I want.
My first problem was about the USB-controllers, but than I found like you Leo Bodnar's page and I think even me should be able to use this board.
Problem: I'm not a mechanic, that will be the hardest part.

Do you want maybe show some pics of your hardware?
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Re: Helicopter realism -- or not? Real pilot tests?

Postby ranger8 » Tue Mar 29, 2011 3:28 pm

HHS,

I'll try to post some pics.

Problem: I'm a mechanic/pilot, not a computer guy!

i'm at work right now, but I'll take some tonight and try to have them on here by tommorrow.

Leo's board is pretty easy to use, even for me! your right, the tricky part is the mechanics. I am happy to share anything I have with you or anyone on here, but most of what we have right now is made from odds and ends, and alot of real R22 components so that may not help you much.
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Re: Helicopter realism -- or not? Real pilot tests?

Postby ranger8 » Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:13 pm

Ok,
I got my controls figured out, and got to fly the r22 with full controll capability.
Not as impressed as I had hoped to be from my initial testing, but not totaly disapointed either.
simply said, there's some work to do, and from what i've seen so far, a realistic flight model is acheiveable.

not knowing how the fdm works or accounts for things, the posistion and weight of the pilot will be my first suggestion.

The PIC for the R22 or 44 or 66 or basicly most american made, counterclockwise rotating helicopters, needs to be on the right hand side of the aircraft. in the case of the robinsons, solo flight is prohibited from the left seat because of where the pilots weight would put the c.g. The c.g. would be so far left of center,that not enough right lateral cyclic would be available to maneuver the ship.

The current version seems to lack tail rotor(rudder) authority, in the real 22 or 44, only about 1/8 to 1/4 of left pedal is needed to cancel out the right yaw during pick up, or in a stable hover.
example: a pilot might need between an 1/8 and 1/4 left pedal to pick up straight, then back off to an 1/8 in the hover.

the input from hover to climbing flight does need to increase slightly as collective is added, the sim requires much more to be added than is real when adding collective, and conversly to much right pedal input when collective is decreased.
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Re: Helicopter realism -- or not? Real pilot tests?

Postby HHS » Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:04 pm

Thanks Ranger for your inputs,

I'm not surprised about this, as this is a physical model and so we need a lot of values and these are often hard to find.
A small search on pprune.org helped me today to find some datas about the real values of the rotor control travel. Unfortunately not for the tail rotor.

But it will need a lot of work, as with that the heli was unflyable with these value changes....Maybe the author of the fdm himself can help. I'll see if I can contact today or the next days.
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Re: Helicopter realism -- or not? Real pilot tests?

Postby HHS » Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:45 pm

Found my issue I had- with a passenger I have not enough lateral cyclic, so I always ended upside down....

And I hope I found the right values for the tail rotor authority.

In generelly the helicopter seems to have not enough power, I don't get the climb rates published....Something I would like to discuss with Maik.
If anyones wants to try:

Backup your R22BetaII.xml in FlightGear/(fg)data/Aircraft/R22 and then save following lines instead:
Code: Select all
<!--
Robinson R22 Beta II specs:
Weights
Gross Weight 1,370 lb
Empty Weight Equipped (w/full oil) 855 lb
Fuel (19.2 gal) 115 lb
Optional Auxiliary Fuel (10.5 gal)    63 lb
MAXIMUM PER SEAT WEIGHT: 240 lbs
MINIMUM SOLO WEIGHT: 140 lb

Powerplant
Lycoming O-360 Four-Cylinder, Air-Cooled
Derated to 131 horsepower at 2652 rpm

Performance
Maximum Airspeed (Vne) 118 mph (102 kts)
Cruise Airspeed @ 70% Power 110 mph (96 kts)
Maximum Range (no reserve) Over 200 miles
Maximum Range (w/aux fuel) Over 300 miles
Average Fuel Consumption 8 to 10 gph
Rate-of-Climb at Sea Level Over 1,000 fpm
Rate-of-Climb at 10,000 Feet Over 600 fpm
Maximum Operating Altitude 14,000 feet
Hover Ceiling IGE @ 1370 GW 9,400 feet

Rotor
18 degree delta3
530 rpm
Airfoil NACA 63-015
teetering hinge ...
-->
<airplane mass="855">

<approach speed="50" aoa="16">
  <control-setting axis="/controls/engines/engine[0]/throttle" value="0.3"/>
</approach>

<cruise speed="102" alt="0">
  <control-setting axis="/controls/engines/engine[0]/throttle" value="1.0"/>
</cruise>


<rotor name="main" x="0.0" y="0.0" z="0.0" nx="0" ny="0" nz="1.0" fx="1" fy="0" fz="0" ccw="1"
  maxcollective="14.5" mincollective="0.0"
  mincyclicele="-9" maxcyclicele="11"
  mincyclicail="-9.5" maxcyclicail="6"
  diameter="7.67" numblades="2" weightperblade="15" relbladecenter="0.5"
  dynamic="0.8" rpm="530" rellenflaphinge="0.002" delta3="0.3"
  delta=".15"
  pitch-a="10"
  pitch-b="15"
  flapmin="-7.6"
  flapmax="14.7"
  flap0="-5"
  phi0="0"
  flap0factor="0"
  notorque="0"
  dragfactor="0.30"
  translift-ve="15"
  translift-maxfactor="1.2"
  ground-effect-constant="0.1"
  twist="-7"
  taper="1"
  chord="0.18288"
  number-of-segments="8"
  number-of-parts="8"
  rel-len-where-incidence-is-measured="0.7"
  rel-len-blade-start="0.02"

  airfoil-lift-coefficient="5.5"
  airfoil-drag-coefficient0="0.005"
  airfoil-drag-coefficient1="0.025"
  incidence-stall-zero-speed="19.25"
  incidence-stall-half-sonic-speed="10.5"
  lift-factor-stall="0.26"
  stall-change-over="7"
  drag-factor-stall="9.0"
  cyclic-factor="0.9"
  rotor-correction-factor="0.9"
  downwashfactor="0.25"
>
  <control-input axis="/controls/flight/aileron-trim" control="CYCLICAIL" split="true"/>
  <control-input axis="/controls/flight/aileron" control="CYCLICAIL"
                 src0="-1.0" src1="1.0"
                 dst0="-0.30" dst1="0.20"/>
  <control-input axis="/controls/flight/elevator-trim" control="CYCLICELE"/>
  <control-input axis="/controls/flight/elevator" control="CYCLICELE"
                 src0="-1.0" src1="1.0"
                 dst0="-1.0" dst1="1.0"/>
  <control-input axis="/controls/engines/engine[0]/throttle" control="COLLECTIVE"
                 src0="0.0" src1="1.0"
                 dst0="1.0" dst1="-1.0"/>
</rotor>


<rotor name="tail" x="-4.41" y="-0.2" z="-0.94" nx="0.0" ny="-1" nz="0.0" fx="1" fy="0" fz="0" ccw="1"
  maxcollective="20" mincollective="-10"
  diameter="1.0668" numblades="2" weightperblade="2" relbladecenter="0.55"
  dynamic="0.80" rpm="3356" rellenflaphinge="0.01" delta3="1" translift="0" delta="0.5"
  pitch-a="10"
  pitch-b="15"
   airfoil-lift-coefficient="5.5"
  airfoil-drag-coefficient0="0.005"
  airfoil-drag-coefficient1="0.025"
  incidence-stall-zero-speed="19.25"
  incidence-stall-half-sonic-speed="10.5"
  lift-factor-stall="0.26"
  stall-change-over="7"
  drag-factor-stall="9.0"
  notorque="0"
  taper="1"
  chord="0.116"
  number-of-segments="5"
  number-of-parts="4"
  rel-len-blade-start="0.2"
  rotor-correction-factor="0.9"
  downwashfactor="0.3"

>
<control-input axis="/controls/flight/rudder" control="COLLECTIVE" invert="true"
    src0="-1.0" src1="1.0"
    dst0="-0.7" dst1="0.7"/>
</rotor>


<rotorgear
  max-power-engine="125"
  max-power-rotor-brake="10"
  rotorgear-friction="0.5"
  engine-prop-factor="0.005"
  engine-accel-limit="10"

  yasimdragfactor="10"
  yasimliftfactor="180"
>
  <control-input axis="engines/engine[0]/clutch-engaged" control="ROTORGEARENGINEON"/>
  <control-input axis="/controls/rotor/brake" control="ROTORBRAKE"
                 src0="0.0" src1="1.0"
                 dst0="0.0" dst1="1.0"/>
</rotorgear>


<cockpit x="0.5" y=".33" z="-1.2"/>

<fuselage ax="1.348" ay="0" az="-1.574"
  bx="-0.6" by="0" bz="-1.46" idrag="0"
  width="1.1" taper="0.7" midpoint="0.5"
  cy="1.2" cx="1.2"/><!--cabin-->

<fuselage ax="-0.55" ay="0" az="-1.22"
  bx="-4.308" by="0" bz="-0.928" idrag="0"
  width="0.36" taper="0.2" midpoint="0.0"/><!--tail boom-->

<vstab x="-0.01" y="0" z="-0.540" taper="0.7" length="0.716" chord="0.525">
</vstab>

<fuselage ax="0.065" ay="0" az="-1.57"
  bx="-0.464" by="0" bz="-1.57" idrag="0"
  width="0.7" taper="1.0" midpoint="0.5"/><!--engine-->

<fuselage ax="1.5" ay="-0.918" az="-2.495"
  bx="-0.465" by="-0.918" bz="-2.495" idrag="0"
  width="0.05" taper="1.0" midpoint="0.5"/><!--RH skid-->

<fuselage ax="0.9" ay="-0.427" az="-2.07"
  bx="0.9" by="-0.884" bz="-2.455" idrag="0"
  width="0.05" taper="1.0" midpoint="0.5"/><!--RH skid Frtleg-->

<fuselage ax="-0.365" ay="-0.427" az="-2.07"
  bx="-0.365" by="-0.884" bz="-2.455" idrag="0"
  width="0.05" taper="1.0" midpoint="0.5"/><!--RH skid Rrleg-->

<fuselage ax="1.5" ay="0.918" az="-2.495"
  bx="-0.465" by="0.918" bz="-2.495" idrag="0"
  width="0.05" taper="1.0" midpoint="0.5"/><!--LH skid-->

<fuselage ax="0.9" ay="0.427" az="-2.07"
  bx="0.9" by="0.884" bz="-2.455" idrag="0"
  width="0.05" taper="1.0" midpoint="0.5"/><!--LH skid Frtleg-->

<fuselage ax="-0.365" ay="0.427" az="-2.07"
  bx="-0.365" by="0.884" bz="-2.455" idrag="0"
  width="0.05" taper="1.0" midpoint="0.5"/><!--LH skid Rrleg-->


<vstab x="-4.408" y="0" z="-1.493" taper="1" length="1.06" chord="0.22" effectiveness="0.5">
  <stall aoa="16" width="4" peak="1.5"/>
</vstab>

<gear x="1.5" y="0.92" z="-2.558" skid="1" compression="0.10"
spring="1.0" damp="0.2" sfric="0.5" dfric="0.4">
  </gear>
<gear x="1.5" y="-0.92" z="-2.558" skid="1" compression="0.10"
spring="1.0" damp="0.2" sfric="0.5" dfric="0.4">
  </gear>
<gear x="-0.5" y="0.92" z="-2.558" skid="1" compression="0.10"
spring="1.0" damp="0.2" sfric="0.5" dfric="0.4">
  </gear>
<gear x="-0.5" y="-0.92" z="-2.558" skid="1" compression="0.10"
spring="1.0" damp="0.2" sfric="0.5" dfric="0.4">
  </gear>

<!-- tail rotor guard-->
<gear x="-4.47" y="0.00" z="-1.8" skid="1" compression="0.01"
spring="0.1" sfric="1" dfric="1"/>

<tank x="-0.2185" y="-0.2794" z="-1.8" capacity="115.2"/><!--main-->
<tank x="-0.09652" y="0.2718" z="-1.8" capacity="63"/><!--auxilary-->
<tank x="0" y="0.0" z="-1.7" capacity="0"/>

<weight x="0.5" y="0.27"  z="-1.5" mass-prop="/sim/weight[0]/weight-lb"/><!-- left seat-->
<weight x="0.5" y="-0.27" z="-1.5" mass-prop="/sim/weight[1]/weight-lb"/><!-- right seat-->
<!--
<ballast x="-0.5" y="0.15" z="-1.2" mass="150"/>
<ballast x="-0.5" y="-0.15" z="-1.2" mass="150"/>
<ballast x="0.05" y="0.5" z="-1.5" mass="150"/>
-->
<ballast x="-0.4" y="0" z="-1.3" mass="300"/>
</airplane>


The same now for the R22-set.xml:
Code: Select all
<?xml version="1.0"?>
<!--
############
Robinson R-22 Beta II
Syd Adams
############
-->

<PropertyList>

    <sim>
        <description>Robinson R22 Beta II</description>
        <author>Syd Adams, Maik Justus</author>
        <flight-model>yasim</flight-model>
        <aero>R22BetaII</aero>
        <fuel-fraction>0.5</fuel-fraction>
        <startup>
            <splash-texture>Aircraft/R22/splash.png</splash-texture>
        </startup>

        <tutorials>
        <tutorial include="Tutorials/startup_tutorial.xml"/>
        </tutorials>

        <model>
            <path>Aircraft/R22/Models/R22.xml</path>
            <variant type="int">0</variant>
            <sound>
                <volume type="double">0</volume>
                <click type="bool">0</click>
            </sound>

            <livery>
                <file type="string">Red</file>
            </livery>
        </model>

        <hud>
            <enable3d>false</enable3d>
        </hud>

        <systems>
            <electrical>
                <path></path>
            </electrical>
        </systems>

        <instrumentation>
            <path>Aircraft/R22/instrumentation.xml</path>
        </instrumentation>

        <sound>
            <path>Aircraft/R22/R22-sound.xml</path>
        </sound>

        <virtual-cockpit archive="y">true</virtual-cockpit>
        <allow-toggle-cockpit archive="y">true</allow-toggle-cockpit>

        <view>
            <internal archive="y">true</internal>
            <config>
                <x-offset-m archive="y">0.20</x-offset-m>
                <y-offset-m archive="y">-1.04</y-offset-m>
                <z-offset-m archive="y">-0.4</z-offset-m>
                <pitch-offset-deg>-12</pitch-offset-deg>
                <default-field-of-view-deg type="double">55.0</default-field-of-view-deg>
            </config>
        </view>

    <view n="1">
        <config>
            <target-y-offset-m archive="y" type="double">-1.2</target-y-offset-m>
            <target-z-offset-m archive="y" type="double">-0.5</target-z-offset-m>
            <default-field-of-view-deg type="double">55.0</default-field-of-view-deg>
        </config>
    </view>
       
    <view n="2">
        <config>
            <target-y-offset-m archive="y" type="double">-1.2</target-y-offset-m>
            <target-z-offset-m archive="y" type="double">-0.5</target-z-offset-m>
            <default-field-of-view-deg type="double">55.0</default-field-of-view-deg>
        </config>
    </view>
   
       
    <view n="4">
        <config>
            <target-y-offset-m archive="y" type="double">-1.2</target-y-offset-m>
            <target-z-offset-m archive="y" type="double">-1</target-z-offset-m>
            <default-field-of-view-deg type="double">55.0</default-field-of-view-deg>
        </config>
    </view>
       
       
    <view n="6">
        <config>
            <target-y-offset-m archive="y" type="double">-1.2</target-y-offset-m>
            <target-z-offset-m archive="y" type="double">-0.5</target-z-offset-m>
            <default-field-of-view-deg type="double">55.0</default-field-of-view-deg>
        </config>
    </view>

    <view n="100">
        <name>Panel View</name>
        <type>lookfrom</type>
        <internal type="bool">true</internal>
        <config>
            <from-model type="bool">true</from-model>
            <from-model-idx type="int">0</from-model-idx>
            <ground-level-nearplane-m type="double">0.5f</ground-level-nearplane-m>
            <default-field-of-view-deg type="double">33.0</default-field-of-view-deg>
            <default-pitch-deg type="double">0</default-pitch-deg>
            <default-heading-deg type="double">0</default-heading-deg>
            <front-direction-deg type="double">0</front-direction-deg>
            <front-left-direction-deg type="double">45</front-left-direction-deg>
            <left-direction-deg type="double">90</left-direction-deg>
            <back-left-direction-deg type="double">135</back-left-direction-deg>
            <back-direction-deg type="double">180</back-direction-deg>
            <back-right-direction-deg type="double">225</back-right-direction-deg>
            <right-direction-deg type="double">270</right-direction-deg>
            <front-right-direction-deg type="double">315</front-right-direction-deg>
            <x-offset-m archive="y">-0.2</x-offset-m>
            <y-offset-m archive="y">-1.2</y-offset-m>
            <z-offset-m archive="y">-0.55</z-offset-m>
            <heading-offset-deg>345.5</heading-offset-deg>
            <pitch-offset-deg>-25.5</pitch-offset-deg>
        </config>
    </view>

        <chase-distance-m type="double" archive="y">-12.0</chase-distance-m>

    <weight n="0">
            <name>Pilot</name>
            <weight-lb>180</weight-lb>
            <max-lb>240</max-lb>
            <min-lb>140</min-lb>
        </weight>

        <weight n="1">
            <name>Pax/Baggage</name>
            <weight-lb>0</weight-lb>
            <max-lb>240</max-lb>
            <min-lb>0</min-lb>
        </weight>

        <help>
            <title>Robinson R-22</title>
            <line></line>
            <key>
                <name>y</name>
                <desc>Toggle yokes on / off</desc>
            </key>
            <key>
                <name>{</name>
                <desc>Turn ignition key off</desc>
            </key>
            <key>
                <name>}</name>
                <desc>Turn ignition key on</desc>
            </key>
            <key>
                <name>s</name>
                <desc>Engage starter</desc>
            </key>
            <key>
                <name>N</name>
                <desc>toggle rotor brake</desc>
            </key>
        </help>

    <yokes-visible type="bool">1</yokes-visible>

    <menubar>
        <default>
            <menu n="10">
                <label>R22</label>
                <enabled type="bool">true</enabled>
                <item>
                    <label>Autostart</label>
                    <binding>
                        <command>property-toggle</command>
                        <property>sim/model/start-idling</property>
                    </binding>
                </item>
                <item>
                    <label>Toggle T-Bar</label>
                    <binding>
                        <command>property-toggle</command>
                        <property>sim/yokes-visible</property>
                    </binding>
                </item>
                <item>
                    <label>Select Livery</label>
                    <binding>
                        <command>nasal</command>
                        <script>aircraft.livery.dialog.toggle()</script>
                    </binding>
                </item>
            </menu>
        </default>
    </menubar>

    </sim>

    <engines>
        <engine>
            <rpm type="double">0</rpm>
            <running type="bool">false</running>
            <clutch-engaged type="bool">false</clutch-engaged>
        </engine>
    </engines>

    <controls>
        <engines>
            <engine>
                <throttle>1.0</throttle>
                <clutch type="bool">0</clutch>
                <clutchguard type="bool">0</clutchguard>
            </engine>
        </engines>
        <flight>
            <aileron-trim>0</aileron-trim>
            <elevator-trim>0</elevator-trim>
        </flight>
        <gear>
            <brake-parking>1</brake-parking>
        </gear>
        <electric>
            <key type="int">0</key>
            <battery-switch>0</battery-switch>
            <engine>
                <generator>0</generator>
            </engine>
        </electric>
        <rotor>
            <engine-throttle type="double">1.0</engine-throttle>
            <brake>0</brake>
        </rotor>
    </controls>

    <instrumentation>
        <gsdi>
            <serviceable type="bool">true</serviceable>
        </gsdi>
            <inst-vertical-speed-indicator>
                <serviceable type="bool">true</serviceable>
            </inst-vertical-speed-indicator>
    </instrumentation>

    <input>
        <keyboard>
        <key n="121">
        <name>y</name>
        <desc>Toggle yokes</desc>
        <binding>
        <command>property-toggle</command>
        <property>/sim/yokes-visible</property>
        </binding>
        </key>

        <key n="123">
        <name>{</name>
        <desc>key off</desc>
        <binding>
            <command>property-adjust</command>
            <property>controls/electric/key</property>
            <step>-1</step>
            <min>0</min>
            <max>3</max>
            <wrap>0</wrap>
        </binding>
        </key>

        <key n="125">
        <name>}</name>
        <desc>key on</desc>
        <binding>
            <command>property-adjust</command>
            <property>controls/electric/key</property>
            <step>1</step>
            <min>0</min>
            <max>3</max>
            <wrap>0</wrap>
        </binding>
        </key>

<!--
        <key n="360">
        <name>PageUp</name>
        <desc>Increase engine throttle</desc>
        <binding>
            <command>property-adjust</command>
            <property>controls/rotor/engine-throttle</property>
            <step>0.02</step>
            <min>0.30</min>
            <max>1.00</max>
            <wrap>0</wrap>
        </binding>
        </key>

        <key n="361">
        <name>PageDown</name>
        <desc>Decrease engine throttle</desc>
        <binding>
            <command>property-adjust</command>
            <property>controls/rotor/engine-throttle</property>
            <step>-0.02</step>
            <min>0.30</min>
            <max>1.00</max>
            <wrap>0</wrap>
        </binding>
        </key>
-->

        <key n="78">
        <name>N</name>
        <desc>Toggle rotor brake</desc>
        <binding>
            <command>property-toggle</command>
            <property>controls/rotor/brake</property>
        </binding>
        </key>

</keyboard>
    </input>

    <nasal>
        <R22>
            <file>Aircraft/R22/Nasal/Electrical.nas</file>
            <file>Aircraft/R22/Nasal/R22.nas</file>
        </R22>
    </nasal>

</PropertyList>
Up, up and away
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Re: Helicopter realism -- or not? Real pilot tests?

Postby ranger8 » Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:03 pm

Here's where I show part of how much I don't know. How I do post my pictures of our R22 ship turned into a simulator on here?
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Re: Helicopter realism -- or not? Real pilot tests?

Postby redneck » Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:10 pm

Here's a link to the FAQ for posting screen shots. It basically applies to all images.
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Re: Helicopter realism -- or not? Real pilot tests?

Postby ranger8 » Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:05 am

Thanks, here goes:

ImageImage
ImageImage
Image
mostly construction pics,
here's some of when we finally got it going, running fsx
http://img856.imageshack.us/g/photo6oa.jpg/

and finally a short video http://img101.imageshack.us/i/fa7.mp4/

HHS, I'll try that out tommorrow night, looking forward to it. Now a little more R22 info for you, As far as underpowered.

With the 22, if you have a passenger, it's a dog and underpowered! If your solo, it's a blast and almost overpowered! Yes the cyclic center, or sweetspot will change, big time! between those two scenarios.

here's a link to a weight and balance calculator specific to the R22. http://wikirfm.cyclicandcollective.net/extras/r22-wb I have not tried this particular one yet, couldn't find the link to the one I used use in school.
Last edited by Gijs on Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fix images and links ;)
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Re: Helicopter realism -- or not? Real pilot tests?

Postby Johan G » Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:00 pm

That's quite a nice set up you've got there! :shock: 8)
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Re: Helicopter realism -- or not? Real pilot tests?

Postby ranger8 » Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:14 pm

Thanks, we've put a lot of work into it. We work on it with almost every free minute that isn't spent at work, or actual flying, that's why I want to make it as realistic as possible.

BTW, I love your signoff.
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Re: Helicopter realism -- or not? Real pilot tests?

Postby Groucho » Fri Apr 01, 2011 6:45 pm

HHS wrote in Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:45 pm:Found my issue I had- with a passenger I have not enough lateral cyclic, so I always ended upside down....

And I hope I found the right values for the tail rotor authority.

In generelly the helicopter seems to have not enough power, I don't get the climb rates published....Something I would like to discuss with Maik.
If anyones wants to try:


Not sure if it was me here but from a quick check it seems as if it now extremely pulls to the right side. As if John Goodman and John Candy together were seated there.
I had a pretty hard time to control the whole aircraft in a stable hover now by banking it left.
_____________________________________
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Flight locations: TNCM, TKPK, EDNY, LOWI
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Twins/Jets: Aerostar, CRJ-200
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Re: Helicopter realism -- or not? Real pilot tests?

Postby HHS » Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:56 pm

Doesn't surprise me. I have removed the pax sitting on the front, before the heli has been loaded with a pilot and a pax.
And then I changed the rotor control travel limits to values mentioned on pprune.org..
Before the heli had symmetrical aft/forward and longitudal values.

I hope or hoped that I'm able I can start from the real values, but it seems to me that it will break the whole behaviour. The fdm by Maik was good as it did what the manual said. (climb rate, speed,...), and the airfoil data is right as well.

Difficult. Tuning heli-fdm's to realistic and correct behaviour isn't done in 3 hours. Let me see and think about that :|
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Re: Helicopter realism -- or not? Real pilot tests?

Postby ranger8 » Fri Apr 01, 2011 8:59 pm

HHS,

I did as you suggested with the 22beta files & decreased the weight on the left side. When I flew the cyclic was closer to what it should be, just needs to be a litlle bit farther foward, lateral was good as it was left of center as it should be(if solo). I did not notice any change in tail rotor authority, when the aircraft was on the ground, I had to be at full right pedal to keep from spinning left,then change to full left pedal as I increased collective to lift up.

Could it be possible that the data that the files were built off of was inverted?(left side should right and vice versa).

or

Could the data be wrong all together?

I'll be losing access to our sim for a while, as tonight I am taking it to my business partners house for a couple of weeks for him to work on networking another computer to it and some other things, but I have my pilots operating handbook for the R22 with all specs for each configuration of the R22 models(alpha,beta,betaII).


Would any of that info be of use to you or Groucho?
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Re: Helicopter realism -- or not? Real pilot tests?

Postby Groucho » Sat Apr 02, 2011 7:03 pm

ranger8 wrote in Fri Apr 01, 2011 8:59 pm:Would any of that info be of use to you or Groucho?


HHS is the FDM wizard here. Unfortunately I can not provide more than acting as a test pilot for the changes 8)
_____________________________________
Callsign: D-HARP
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