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Using Kelpie Flight Planner with Flightgear 2016.2.1

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Using Kelpie Flight Planner with Flightgear 2016.2.1

Postby Repair8PO » Mon Jun 13, 2016 7:52 pm

Windows 7 Pro, 64-Bit
16 GB Memory
4 GB Graphic Memory
Intel I7-4790 - 3.60 Ghz Processor

Seeking assistance with using the Kelpie Flight Planner with Flightgear 2016.2.1. My latest attempt was:

* Fired up the Kelpie in it's own Window, since I do not know of any method to invoke it from Flightgear.
* Fired up FG 2016.2.1, used the Cessna 310, started it up at KAOO (Altoona, PA) Runway 12 and used the default SID.
* Using the Route Manager, set up PTW (Heritage Field, which was Pottstown-Limerick, PA. when I last really
flew) Runway 10 and used the default STAR. Inserted Waypoints into the Route Manager at appropriate altitudes
at State College, York, Lancaster, Reading and Pottstown Municipal.
* Using the Windows Task Manage (Ctrl+Alt+Delete) invoked the running Kelpie Flight Planer module/program.

Nothing happened... what should I be doing for Flight Gear and Kelpie to interface?
Should I have not put in the Waypoints?

Also, I did have a devil of a time putting the waypoints in, it took several (if not many) attempts to get the first waypoint to 'take'. Is this normal?
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The following could be a second document, but it is the same to here, excluding all reference to Kelpie. If it is desired I will re-enter it, but for now...

I go back and start to fly the plan. At 500' activate the Route Manager at the first non-airport waypoint of the SID. The aircraft has to be hand flown.
I obviously have missed something linking my steps in the Route Manager to the Autopilot. In a Flightgear Wiki document, there is a reference to a LNAV
button to command lateral navigation to the first (and hopefully the following) waypoints, The Wiki article also mentions "that altitude works separately, so you have to set your own altitude and vertical speed." What is not mentioned is that full power and steady control input results in dives and steep climbs. The aircraft wanders off course and over corrects, needing constant manual input - I would hate to fly a 500 mile cross country with this auto pilot.

I am not trying to be overly critical of the simulator, I love it! I am fine VFR as I was in the olden days, but I never went for the instrument rating and am trying to experience in Flight Gear. Hopefully, someone can put me on the straight path. I will appreciate it.
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Re: Using Kelpie Flight Planner with Flightgear 2016.2.1

Postby wkitty42 » Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:46 pm

sorry to be the bearer of BadNews<tm> but i found kelpie not long after i found flightgear (about 1.5 years ago as of this writing)... i wrote the author/maintainer and asked them if the kelpie project was still active as i was having some problems... their reply was that it is basically a dead project and no longer supported... i can try to hunt down the email exchange and post it if necessary...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: Using Kelpie Flight Planner with Flightgear 2016.2.1

Postby Repair8PO » Mon Jun 13, 2016 9:25 pm

No, do not try to find the email exchange, it is not necessary. Kelpie sounded too good to be true. But I'll hang in there in case some one can shed some light. I thought that some one
must be using it, maybe not? Maybe I can get some advice on the second part of my problem. Thanks for your information, it's good news - I will quit beating a dead horse, as my wife says, I'm bald enough. Thanks again.
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Re: Using Kelpie Flight Planner with Flightgear 2016.2.1

Postby wkitty42 » Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:01 pm

ok... here's what i figured out without reading any docs... this lesson came over time but basically it goes like this... i start the craft and then set up the route in the route manager (i only know the default one from the F10->Autopilot menu in the sim)... once i have the route set up, then i click the [ACTIVATE] button and it is ready to go... back to the craft's cockpit screen, i apply thrust and take off, raise the wheels and hit the F11 key to bring up the "navigation control" where i then enable the "Heading Control" and ensure the "GPS/FMS Heading" is selected... that keeps me on the route... i'll also enable the "Pitch/Altitude Control" and select the "Altitude Hold" to fly the altitudes set in the route... on some craft i may enable the "Velocity Control"...

in the Route Manager, once i set the starting point and the ending point, i will click on the ending point to select it and then click on the [ROUTE] button to let the sim select the route... i think it chooses based on the speed and the altitude set just above the waypoint window but i'm not really sure about that... i do use the F10->Equipment->map (the first one) and look over the route... there is a bug where the automatic route selection can choose a waypoint that is hundreds or thousands of miles away... those i simply delete from the listing...

there is also at least one service on the 'net where you can enter starting and ending airports and have it export a FGFS compatible route file that you can load in the route manager, activate and fly... i forget what that service is, though... will have to dig in my bookmarks to find it...

as far as putting in the waypoints manually, yeah, it can be tricky at first... it is possible, too, that the above mentioned bug will also rear its head when doing this... AFAIU this bug is due to there being more than one waypoint with the same name and the wrong one is chosen... i know of no way to fix this other than deleting the wrong one and just leaving it out of the route although it is possible to "fake" it by entering the longitude and latitude of the proper one... i've only used that format once when recreating the route from Cardiff (EGFF) to Fort Lauderdale (KFLL) taken by Iron Maiden in Ed Force One (aka Flight 666), their 747, for their "The Book Of Souls World Tour"... i must admit that i was quite impressed to learn that Bruce Dickinson, the band's lead singer, is also the captain of the flight ;)
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: Using Kelpie Flight Planner with Flightgear 2016.2.1

Postby Repair8PO » Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:08 am

Many thanks for both of your fast and informative responses! I will give your latest one a try tomorrow, I really do appreciate them. Flightgear is fantastic, and beats the other simulators that I have tried hands down. I will post my results tomorrow. Thanks again.
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Re: Using Kelpie Flight Planner with Flightgear 2016.2.1

Postby PINTO » Tue Jun 14, 2016 2:06 am

wkitty42 wrote in Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:01 pm:there is also at least one service on the 'net where you can enter starting and ending airports and have it export a FGFS compatible route file that you can load in the route manager, activate and fly... i forget what that service is, though... will have to dig in my bookmarks to find it...


http://onlineflightplanner.org/
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Re: Using Kelpie Flight Planner with Flightgear 2016.2.1

Postby Repair8PO » Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:00 pm

WKitty42:
I ran your last instructions late last night (could not wait until this morning) and things went perfectly for 98% of the flight. This is perfect from my previous hand flying attempts on this route. There are about nine 7,000' plus ridges on this route and the auto pilot did a super job of getting the plane over all, No problem. My hiccup came over the low lands just west of Lancaster, PA. when I experienced some APIO (Auto Pilot Induced Oscillations) and the altitude started dropping like a rock. The yoke (in the cock pit) was swinging left & right fairly rapidly and the altimeter was unwinding alarmingly fast. I took over manually and hand flew the bird, gained some altitude, reset it back on the auto pilot and the flight progressed in a normal manner. There was no warning for that adventure and I have no explanation for it. I will set the flight up and see if that is a place in the route for a descent from 7450' to some lower altitude, but I stopped it at 1600'. It should never be that low around Lancaster, it was not close to the airport.

I could not get any of my intermediate waypoints into the route, nor the KPTW Runway 10 STAR. I doubt if this had anything to do with the Lancaster fun. YOU HAVE ANSWERED MY QUESTIONS OF THIS POST AND I THANK YOU VERY MUCH, ESPECIALLY FOR THE QUICKNESS AND COMPLETENESS OF YOUR RESPONSES. REPAIR8PO.

Pinto:If you can locate the net service that will build a FGFS compatible route file, I will appreciate it...
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Re: Using Kelpie Flight Planner with Flightgear 2016.2.1

Postby wkitty42 » Tue Jun 14, 2016 5:48 pm

PINTO wrote in Tue Jun 14, 2016 2:06 am:
wkitty42 wrote in Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:01 pm:there is also at least one service on the 'net where you can enter starting and ending airports and have it export a FGFS compatible route file that you can load in the route manager, activate and fly... i forget what that service is, though... will have to dig in my bookmarks to find it...


http://onlineflightplanner.org/

that's it! thanks PINTO :)

i actually have two flight plans there... LFPG - HECA and KABY - KRDU... mainly for experimentation and comparison...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: Using Kelpie Flight Planner with Flightgear 2016.2.1

Postby wkitty42 » Tue Jun 14, 2016 5:51 pm

excellent, Repair8PO... i'm glad to have been able to help... there's a few little tricks with the route manager but what i posted is the main stuff i've figured out...

if there's a [SOLVED] button in your view of this topic, you can click on it and mark the topic as solved... i've seen it (the button) a few times in the past but don't know where it normally sits or if it is even still in use ;)
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: Using Kelpie Flight Planner with Flightgear 2016.2.1

Postby elgaton » Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:48 pm

wkitty42 wrote in Tue Jun 14, 2016 5:51 pm:if there's a [SOLVED] button in your view of this topic, you can click on it and mark the topic as solved... i've seen it (the button) a few times in the past but don't know where it normally sits or if it is even still in use ;)

It's a checkmark button which appears at the top right corner of each post - just click on the one corresponding to the post with the solution.
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Re: Using Kelpie Flight Planner with Flightgear 2016.2.1

Postby Repair8PO » Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:55 pm

No such luck, I do not see a SOLVED button in my view, or I would have clicked it, but I suspect that someone did since it did not appear as an unsolved topic for me.. great and thanks again and to PINTO for that web site... Repair8PO.
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Re: Using Kelpie Flight Planner with Flightgear 2016.2.1

Postby jaxsin » Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:31 am

Greets from Wellsboro PA! Nice to see someone actually flying the east coast Appalachian mountains, besides myself!
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