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Russian Helicopter Mil Mi-6

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Re: Mil mi-6...

Postby HHS » Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:31 pm

Blender3D wrote:Ok... Problem a) is solved! I had to change the rpm from I think 293rpm to -293rpm.

--Blender3D


You didn't get my Email, right?

You have to set ccw="0" (ccw = counterclockwise)
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Re: Mil mi-6...

Postby Blender3D » Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:04 pm

You didn't get my Email, right?


No...It's not the first time an e-Mail disappears. I've set ccw to 0 and removed the "-" from the rpm. I think that looks better. BTW: I updated the model. There are windows now and all the objects have good names. But I still have to work much on the animations. The helicopter works quite good but is stiff impossible to fly. Every time you want to get off the ground, the helicopter turns to the side and gets stuck in the ground. Can it be that I have to change some settings from the <rotor> tags? Maybe the airfoil-lift-coefficient? Or is it because the gears still aren't in place (I mean the front gear is half in the ground and the others hover above the ground)?

Does the animation influence the simulation or is it just some nice looking stuff?

--Blender3D

BTW: How do you get the informations for the <rotor> tags? Do you just try around still you find something that fits or do you use datapapers?
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Re: Mil mi-6...

Postby HHS » Sat Jul 04, 2009 10:57 am

Hi,

Blender3D wrote:
You didn't get my Email, right?


No...It's not the first time an e-Mail disappears.

If you can enable PM I can answer you better, as my English is limited.

The helicopter works quite good but is stiff impossible to fly. Every time you want to get off the ground, the helicopter turns to the side and gets stuck in the ground. Can it be that I have to change some settings from the <rotor> tags? Maybe the airfoil-lift-coefficient? Or is it because the gears still aren't in place (I mean the front gear is half in the ground and the others hover above the ground)?

I didn't look at the last version, but it seems that the gear aren't right.

Does the animation influence the simulation or is it just some nice looking stuff?

The sim influence the animation. All what the sim or better fdm (flight dynamic model- in this case YASim) computes appears as an property. And those influences the animation.

BTW: How do you get the informations for the <rotor> tags? Do you just try around still you find something that fits or do you use datapapers?

Depends on the datas I have available.
"Diameter", "numblades", "Nxyz", "ccw", "rellenflaphinge" and "chord" can be taken easily from pictures and drawings.
"Dynamic" depends on the rotor system. We have in CVS now already 3 different rotor systems based on real datas from the NASA: Bo105 with a rigid rotor system; AirCrane with a conventionel rotor system; and last but not least the Bell UH1 with a teetering rotor system, so take a look into those three types.

For the airfoils we need the lift and drag curves. For the major and famous ones we have already datas. For newer ones and the russian not, so there is much guessing and try and error.

I recommend you to read in data/Docs/ README yasim or here: http://cvs.flightgear.org/viewvc/data/Docs/README.yasim?revision=1.31&view=markup
Also take a look here: http://cvs.flightgear.org/viewvc/data/Docs/README.yasim.rotor.png?view=markup and download this: http://cvs.flightgear.org/viewvc/data/Docs/README.YASim.rotor.xls?revision=1.2

For further question I would recommend to use the devel-list, as there are more people with knowledge about YASim and Maik reads there often.

Regards
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Re: Mil mi-6...

Postby MyName » Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:07 pm

BTW, don't try to ask the manufacturer. I tried to ask Cessna about some data I was needing to complete a FDM and they came up (after about a month) telling me that we needed a "license agreement" in order to have the data. Oh well :(
And it can get even worse, more than two months ago I've sent an email to Crap and Withney (I love to call them like that :mrgreen: ) and I still haven't received a response. At least Cessna was more friendly :P
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Re: Mil mi-6...

Postby Blender3D » Sat Jul 04, 2009 4:26 pm

@HHS: PM should work now. The "User Control Panel" says it's activated.
I'll mail to the dev-list if there is anything I don't know. But I'll still keep this forum informed. Now I'll try to fix the behavior.

@MyName:
That may be true but on the first side anyone has posted a link to a data paper. I'll try to get some informations from it. I know somebody who knows a bit of Russian language and letters. I hope this person can help me with some words.

--Blender3D
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Re: Mil mi-6...

Postby Blender3D » Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:25 pm

Does anybody know if the shape of the rotor- (wing-) model affect the simulation?

--Blender3D
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Re: Mil mi-6...

Postby HHS » Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:43 pm

Blender3D wrote:Does anybody know if the shape of the rotor- (wing-) model affect the simulation?

--Blender3D


??

the blender modells does never affect simulation.
As soon as I find some more time ( I'm currently busy with my real time job) I will explain a bit more how FGFS helicopters work
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Re: Mil mi-6...

Postby Blender3D » Sun Jul 12, 2009 4:04 pm

As long as you have to work, I'll take the Blueprints from the djvu-file and improve my model. It was waaaaayyy too small and also some shapes weren't right.

I Think it'll take until Wednesday evening. Then there should be only minor changes left to do.

--Blender3D
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Re: Mil mi-6...

Postby Blender3D » Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:10 pm

Ok... Now I've done a lot of work for this model. The Rotors and the rotorhead still doesn't fit my expections. And the tanks are still missing. But the fuselage is almost complete. Only some very little details are still to do.
The cockpit is also heavy in work. I've already designed the artificial horizon and the climb-speed indicator. It's almost impossible to get a correct cockpit as long as I don't get to a real mi-6 to take photos of the parts I don't know. So maybe the "final" cockpit will mostly designed with fantasy :(

--Blender3D
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Re: Mil mi-6...

Postby yurik_nsk » Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:30 pm

It's almost impossible to get a correct cockpit as long as I don't get to a real mi-6 to take photos of the parts I don't know.


There are photos on airliners.net, for example:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Russia-- ... 4d53b68d3d

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Russia-- ... 4d53b68d3d

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Russia-- ... 4d53b68d3d

I've already designed the artificial horizon and the climb-speed indicator.


You can take it from an-2 - imho, mi-6 use AGR-1 (artifical horizon), GIK-1 (compass with ADF indication), VAR-30 (variometer), like an-2.
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Re: Mil mi-6...

Postby Blender3D » Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:51 pm

Tanks for the photos. But I found one with the same content on google. And no, I don't think that the Mi-6 has the same artificial horizon as the AN-2

--Blender3D
Fly one of the biggest rotary wing aircraft the world has seen so far! --> Get the newest version now! (http://gitorious.org/mil-mi-6/mi6dev/archive-tarball/master or "git clone git://gitorious.org/mil-mi-6/mi6dev.git")
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Re: Mil mi-6...

Postby yurik_nsk » Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:33 am

I don't think that the Mi-6 has the same artificial horizon as the AN-2


I ask about it in Russian forum. Anyway, we can help you about most of gauges, if you want create realistic cockpit.

See this walkarounds:

http://scalemodels.ru/modules/news/arti ... _1225.html
http://scalemodels.ru/modules/news/arti ... _1224.html
http://scalemodels.ru/modules/news/arti ... _1223.html
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Re: Mil mi-6...

Postby Blender3D » Thu Jul 16, 2009 7:32 am

Wow.. Thank you soooo much for the pictures!!!

--Blender3D
Fly one of the biggest rotary wing aircraft the world has seen so far! --> Get the newest version now! (http://gitorious.org/mil-mi-6/mi6dev/archive-tarball/master or "git clone git://gitorious.org/mil-mi-6/mi6dev.git")
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Re: Mil mi-6...

Postby Blender3D » Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:42 pm

Ok... now I have again trouble with the Nasal. I have working bindings so far, but when I press the button nothing happens exept of the error:
Code: Select all
Nasal parse error: parse error in /input/keyboard/key[123]/binding, line 1
Failed to execute command nasal
Nasal parse error: parse error in /input/keyboard/key[115]/binding, line 1
Failed to execute command nasal


Does anybody know how to fix this?

--Blender3D

Besides, I'm back from vacation where I had the chance to see one of this Mi-6 in real life. I took some photos.
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Re: Mil mi-6...

Postby Gijs » Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:41 pm

Blender3D wrote:I have working bindings so far, but when I press the button nothing happens exept of the error

So they don't work? :?

Does anybody know how to fix this?

Maybey you can post the lines from the bindings and the nasal file?
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