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New Aircraft - Promecc_Freccia

Questions and discussion about creating aircraft. Flight dynamics, 3d models, cockpits, systems, animation, textures.

Re: New Aircraft - Promecc_Freccia

Postby V12 » Sat Sep 04, 2021 5:37 am

helijah wrote in Sat Sep 04, 2021 3:40 am:All the tools are good.

Dear Helijah,
if You develop for arcade game, possibly yes. If You develop for simulator, tools that can't simulate stall, coffin corner or other abnormal situation is not enough. Not bad, but not simply enough. If You use them, You will degrade the sim into arcade game.
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Re: New Aircraft - Promecc_Freccia

Postby D-ECHO » Sat Sep 04, 2021 7:32 am

I do respect your opinion, helijah, but this decision is not merely about personal liking, there is a fundamental, technical difference between the way YaSim and JSBSim work. This does not mean that one is worse than the other, but the author of an aircraft should pick the one fitting their development style and available information.

In order not to make this another one of the way too many YaSim vs. JSBSim discussions on this forum, here is a link to the wiki:
https://wiki.flightgear.org/JSBSim_vs_YASim
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Re: New Aircraft - Promecc_Freccia

Postby S&J » Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:50 am

Oh well if we're giving examples of planes to try... Download the beagle pup experiment where examples of differing modelling techniques were showcased against each other. That way you'll see yasim and multiple ways of jusing jsbsim.
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Re: New Aircraft - Promecc_Freccia

Postby SDeAstis » Thu Sep 09, 2021 11:34 am

Hi all,
first of all thanks for your comments and suggestions. I just want to share some progress I made.
Attached the render of a initial 3D model. It is basic but I want this to be useful only for a DEMO I want to perform with the manufacturer.
I started from almost zero knowledge in Blender modelling. I actually enjoyed the creation of this my first 3D aircraft model. A lot of work needs to be done and a lot of knowledge needs to still be acquired from me. But I'm quite happy at moment and in the case I will get more or full support from Pro.Mecc (http://www.aerospacesalento.com/en/) I might be able to produce more accurate and detail 3D modelling.
Image

Now I will move forward to the FDM and testing with my FGFS installation. I choose JSBSim. I already have experience with it and my purpose is to build something closer as possible to the real vehicle. Also here, if I will get full access to the aircraft data, I can achieve the best result.
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Re: New Aircraft - Promecc_Freccia

Postby merspieler » Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:43 pm

Looks impressive for a first model.
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Re: New Aircraft - Promecc_Freccia

Postby Johan G » Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:58 am

Indeed. :)
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Re: New Aircraft - Promecc_Freccia

Postby dany93 » Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:21 am

+1.
And so fast...
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Re: New Aircraft - Promecc_Freccia

Postby SDeAstis » Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:56 pm

Hi all,
yesterday I made the first flight in FGFS. As in real life this is an event to celebrate!
Image

Image

Image

Image

This in in South of Italy in province of Lecce, the place where I live and the place of the manufacturer plant of this airplane.

Now I would like to record a flight! How can I get the most realistic and geospecific scenery of this area? Is this the best at moment? I have FGFS 2020.3.9 with Terrasync + OpenStreetMap all shaders at max on my GTX2070Super. Can I get something better?

To record a flight what do you suggest to use and where can I publish/share the video? Do we have some preferred way! If not I will find my way.

Thanks!
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Re: New Aircraft - Promecc_Freccia

Postby Johan G » Sat Sep 11, 2021 7:59 pm

SDeAstis wrote in Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:56 pm:[...] yesterday I made the first flight in FGFS. As in real life this is an event to celebrate!

Congratulations! :D

SDeAstis wrote in Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:56 pm:To record a flight what do you suggest to use and where can I publish/share the video? Do we have some preferred way! If not I will find my way.

Like mentioned OBS is a good choice. For editing the videos two of the more popular editors are Kdenlive and Shotcut. In general Kdenlive is considered more feature rich (though some people say Shotcut is pretty close), and Shotcut more stable (as in fewer crashes). Both are FOSS (free and open source software).
Low-level flying — It's all fun and games till someone looses an engine. (Paraphrased from a YouTube video)
Improving the Dassault Mirage F1 (Wiki, Forum, GitLab. Work in slow progress)
Some YouTube videos
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Re: New Aircraft - Promecc_Freccia

Postby V12 » Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:38 pm

I use Shotcut. It is relative stable, in 3 years very few crashes, but productivity in Shotcut or Kdenlive is poor in comparison with Vegas or Premiere (both payware). For home use, Shotcut is more than enough.
For video recording, probably OBS is best tool of all.
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Re: New Aircraft - Promecc_Freccia

Postby Johan G » Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:21 am

Some posts regarding the photoscenery generator by abassign mas moved to Photoscenery generator for Julia compiler.
Low-level flying — It's all fun and games till someone looses an engine. (Paraphrased from a YouTube video)
Improving the Dassault Mirage F1 (Wiki, Forum, GitLab. Work in slow progress)
Some YouTube videos
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Re: New Aircraft - Promecc_Freccia

Postby SDeAstis » Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:30 am

Hi all,
Just a quick update. I'm currently working on the FDM. JSBsim is my choice. So far I started with an FDM generated by Aeromatic C++ 3.3 tool present in the JSBSim standalone package. In parallel I've also took Datcom+ and created the .dcm file for this aircraft.
At moment I'm fine tuning the FDM. The tuning started by replacing the CG at 25% of the MAC first.
I did't touch the position of the AEROP because I'm not sure where to place it yet.
Then I tuned the controls to match the specific airplane.
Then I tuned the ground reactions, placing properly the landing gears and wing and tail touch points.
Now I'm merging Datcom+ output into the aerodynamics.
If some FDM guru would like to review my work is welcome!

Cheers!
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Re: New Aircraft - Promecc_Freccia

Postby D-ECHO » Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:12 pm

The CG alone isn´t as important as the arm between the CG and the aeroRP, as this is what generates turning moments (pitch/roll/yaw) when the wing generates lift. Thus, if you encounter strange behaviour after adjusting the CG, make sure to place the aeroRP at a realistic location. There are two methods known to me, one would be estimating it from the wing geometry and airfoil (pressure point of the airfoil at MAC iirc). Alternatively, you can use the in-flight CG limits as a reference, this is what I did for most of my aircraft as this data is usually more available. To prevent flat spin, conventional aircraft need to have their aeroRP always behind the CG, so the aeroRP can be placed slightly aft of the in-flight aft CG limit. This ensures that the wing´s lift always generates a nose-down moment (which is then counteracted by the horizontal stabilizer).

Hope this helps :)
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Re: New Aircraft - Promecc_Freccia

Postby SDeAstis » Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:05 pm

D-ECHO wrote in Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:12 pm: (pressure point of the airfoil at MAC iirc)


What is this? Can you explain or point me to any sort of available documentation?
Thanks!
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Re: New Aircraft - Promecc_Freccia

Postby Ysop » Mon Sep 27, 2021 7:17 pm

MAC=mean aerodynamic chord

AeroRP can be placed anywhere you like, but you need to be consistent with the associated moments. Placing at 25% or near has the advantage, that it makes stability deriatives comparable to reference aircraft.

Kindly note DATCOM gives values other than CD,CL,Cx,Cz in stability axis.
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