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Boeing 777 ,USAF (Tanker) , ALS ,CDU , ( X9 )

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Re: Boeing 777 ,USAF (Tanker) , ALS ,CDU , ( X9 )

Postby LoCall » Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:24 pm

Gooooze Frabbaaaahhh !

It is nor fair nor nice to have transformed this story in a “Witch hunting” and now in a political comparison with what happened with FGMembers.

There is really nothing to compare.

Let calm down and debrief from this ... definitely.

( It is now going to take rivers to re-stablish the truth [...curse...] )

This is from me a one only last post where I dare to be exhaustive, sorry.

If this however do not suffice to light a sparkle of compassion and understanding in your mind and heart, trying further explanation would be nothing but wast of breath.
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Re: Boeing 777 ,USAF (Tanker) , ALS ,CDU , ( X9 )

Postby LoCall » Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:25 pm

- - - - -

Let me set it clearly from start : Franck did **not** make anything wrong !

- - - - -

Franck amazing gift for graphism come along some lack of confidence for communication.
Nothing than a bit of training with sharing people will not in due time solve.

But no one should take advantage of this to take over Franck, like it did happen.
This is not 0.k.
And no one should have attacked Franck like it did happened.

In any group and society who aspire to some self-respect, people in difficulty should be helped, not hit,
and people acting, apparently, against some given ethic, shall not be accused and sentenced without even having been heard about it !
This is what differentiate us from primitive societies !

Do you think Franck have been properly heard, ... while he struggle that much with the communications ???

Come on !

- - - - -
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Re: Boeing 777 ,USAF (Tanker) , ALS ,CDU , ( X9 )

Postby LoCall » Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:26 pm

I my opinion, a calm second look should be cast,
calm thinking redone using smart information (not witch hunting informations lol),
lesson should be learned,
it would be nothing less than nice if a sincere apologize would be presented to Franck
by who have breached in the inappropriate gap open by SP-MTX.

There are just the most important reasons for this :

1st
for the peace.
“Sic vis pacem para bellum” is monstrous idiocy said by someone trying to make vote reasons for the war.
When you want peace you do peace. Period.

2nd
the truth
my witness :
From day Zero, I have witnessed Franck getting in touch with who so ever in order to try to “make it right”.
Consistently he wanted to share his work and passion with the other who had the same passion.
Who else better then the initial creators of the B77x ?

Franck had a few unsuccessful tries on this.
He told me how he was struggling to understand as well as he was unsure to to make himself understood on the forum ...

( We all know theses language barrier questions ... is it not ? )

I have tried to help him by myself but I was getting a bit too much busy and away from FG.
Mea culpa.
But I did explained to Franck how to “add” his name to the authors list file.
Emphasis onto “add”
I have been monitoring to have this done and it has been done !

I am not aware of an error where at a point the name of other creators were eclipsed from the authors file.
Currently all the authors are in the file.

I can tell for a fact, this is really not how Franck is or do !

I hope this chapter will now close for ever.

- - - - -
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Re: Boeing 777 ,USAF (Tanker) , ALS ,CDU , ( X9 )

Postby LoCall » Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:27 pm

About Youtube.

It is a different story to not mistaken with FG creations.

The creation of the video about the B777 is a creation as a whole in itself.

As far as one can tell, no one have co created or co developed theses videos with Franck.

It is thus intended and expected Franck to write “on the Videos” the name of the creator of the Video, his name only.
If this lead then a viewer to download the plane, he will then find in the files the list of the creators of the **plane**.
This way no creator is eclipsed, occulted, removed, ...

- - - - -

We have to accept one may struggle to understand and thus accept this nuance.
Copyright question are crazy complex.
Lawyers choosing this carrier divert from criminal studies in 1st (or 2nd) year at Law School and will follow a special 3 to 5 years of special studies focussing onto copyright questions.

So, “yeah”, it is freejin’ complex !
There is no shame for us, “normal human” in misunderstanding any part of this.

But if one want to dig a bit in that direction ( youtube and creations using others creations ),
I would invite him/her to dig toward “Derivative Creations Works”.
(One would quickly understand how this is not a GPL question at all).

- - - - -

So to stop here this legal “bleeding”, allow me a pair of simplisms as a short final (less than 4 miles).

GPL and Authorship are not the same thing, nor the same law.

- GPL is about the commercial questions ;
- Authorship is about “paternity”, who created it, who is the pater “father”.

Our beloved FG is GPL because someone have been smart and have opted to keep “ugly money questions” away from it.
Thank you !
Lovely !
I subscribe to it 100 % !
Count on me !
This does mean we do not do “business” with FG.

However, in order FG to exist, as for its planes, and scenarios,
it still does need to have creators, is it not ?

Theses creators are the authors.

Authorship and GPL are very very often mistaken.

Authorship are defined not by the GPL texts but instead by the Bern Convention.
(another piece of wonder for whom love to read very heavy huge books).
(do not laugh too quickly, pilots have them too to read ICAO literature weight tens of thousands pages ... )

But that said,
if,
and I insist on “if”
if Franck would have broken some legal disposition, it would have been some article of the Bern Convention and not the GPL law,
contrarily to what was arguing some GPL “pro tips” giver.
(no shame to take, again it is a crazy confusing legal mosaic, it is more than understandable one would do this mistake).

Be what is definitely clear, Franck have done **nothing wrong** !

- - - - -

Last and closing :

For the sake of whatsoever you want, do not compare Franck’s doings to FGMembers doings ever again.

The goal of Franck always have been to provide the plane to FG official repository once terminated.
This is the absolute opposite of FGMembers ways !

But take special care to not be fooled by the enormous differences existing in between
- developing a plane in solo
and
- developing a plane as a team, collegially.


When one develop a plane in solo,
even if he do start from an existing GPLv2 plane,
he will benefit from an automatic protection given by the Laws
(all around the World except in N.Corea, Taipei and somehow the China ),

this protection is the so called copyright.
It is an automatic protection, nothing special is intended to be done in order to trigger it.
This protection is intended to protect some how more the creation while it is in “creation stage” then “directly the commercial rights of the artist).

It does belong to the artist to state, when his creation is terminated, when he decide his creation his ready for the public, to possibly change that copyright in any other legal form.

One of his choice could be to **remove** the copyright. This is where come from the name copy left (where left is left off and not “opposite of right”).

Once copylefted, the artiste may distribute it choosing a commercial protection scheme CC-... GPL, among others.

Even if an artist share his “non finished” work with people, as long he did not have officially removed the copyright, the protection stay.



When a plane is “collegially” developed by a group, sharing the intermediary result with the public intended to use it (by opposition to a selected public intended to test it before release), and stating from before the product is GPL, the whole creation become ipso facto GPL at all stages.


In the case of Franck, he have developed his “improvements” of the B77x in the very same way.
There is no brake of GPL dispositions at all !

In the future, when you have to make up your mind about if someone is using rightly or abusively the creations (GPL or not) of others, just have a look at the weight of the “additional work done”.

If this is clearly more than just a bunch of cosmetic superficial improvements, there no doubts a real creator artist work have been done and no abuse have been committed.

Now all that blah said, I am following FG from the BBS times and I am user and then active from the half of 2000 decade.

I rarely have seen an FG artist developing with that quality.
We had a few, NEMO, Laurent Berthe, among other.
I can list a small tens of them.

Many left due to some unsightly criticism, pressures, failures to be understood or to meet with some expected gratitude.

This is not about this being fair or not.
This about avoiding to reiterate the same errors that have driven away other valuable creators.

Please, regain gentleman manners and consider an apology to Franck.

The the Forum people
Thank you.

To Franck,
Merci pour tes créations.

LoCall
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Re: Boeing 777 ,USAF (Tanker) , ALS ,CDU , ( X9 )

Postby naviat » Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:30 pm

that was very long
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Re: Boeing 777 ,USAF (Tanker) , ALS ,CDU , ( X9 )

Postby Isaak » Tue Jun 21, 2022 10:34 pm

TLDR.

I apologise to anybody who was offended by me. Over the last year or so I have reached out to Franck multiple times to collaborate, he even got commit access to our collaborative development repository, but never engaged on it. I could have followed up more closely, but didn't do so, so that's on me. Again: if people want to see the FGaddon 777 replaced with this version: all good for me. But please keep in mind that everything has to be GPL compliant to prevent FGaddon from getting polluted with incompliant content. Franck, see this as an official apology from me. I had the best intentions but I fell short on following up on them.

I hope we can close this discussion now and things can move ahead. I 'll step down from developing on the 777 for the time being, as I can't invest enough time anyway, so anyone who wants to take over the 777 maintenance in FGaddon: please feel free to ask for it on the developers mailing list to obtain commit access. I hope we can close this discussion now and move on.
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Re: Boeing 777 ,USAF (Tanker) , ALS ,CDU , ( X9 )

Postby SP-NTX » Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:49 pm

@LoCall, i've send the AUTHORS file few posts ago... AND YOU STILL THINKS THERE IS FULL AUTHORS LIST?
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Re: Boeing 777 ,USAF (Tanker) , ALS ,CDU , ( X9 )

Postby Octal450 » Wed Jun 22, 2022 6:19 pm

I really think you guys are just having a language barrier/miscommunication. I don't think anyone had bad intentions; I think this was just a misunderstanding. Isaak, don't step away, I hope that this can be resolved as I'd love to see the work continue.

Kind Regards,
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Re: Boeing 777 ,USAF (Tanker) , ALS ,CDU , ( X9 )

Postby SP-NTX » Wed Jun 22, 2022 10:42 pm

I'm writing long post now to end this stupid topic but it will take 2 days
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Re: Boeing 777 ,USAF (Tanker) , ALS ,CDU , ( X9 )

Postby naviat » Fri Jun 24, 2022 3:53 am

I've said this before, but I really think that Franck should release a paintkit for his liveries to speed up development. I don't think he can't do it by himself, but I would really love to design some liveries for it.
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Re: Boeing 777 ,USAF (Tanker) , ALS ,CDU , ( X9 )

Postby franck » Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:28 pm

naviat wrote in Fri Jun 24, 2022 3:53 am:I've said this before, but I really think that Franck should release a paintkit for his liveries to speed up development. I don't think he can't do it by himself, but I would really love to design some liveries for it.



a painte kit for each model, it's up to you to make your own, my with Blender 2.79. tutorials on it yes my actually no

------------------------------------------------

un painte kit a chaque model , a vous de faire les vôtres , mes avec Blender 2.79 . des tutos dessus oui mes actuellement non
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Re: Boeing 777 ,USAF (Tanker) , ALS ,CDU , ( X9 )

Postby B777-237LR » Mon Nov 28, 2022 1:28 am

The link is not showing the aircraft repository. is there a way to download not through source-forge.
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Re: Boeing 777 ,USAF (Tanker) , ALS ,CDU , ( X9 )

Postby wkitty42 » Mon Nov 28, 2022 11:24 am

B777-237LR wrote in Mon Nov 28, 2022 1:28 am:The link is not showing the aircraft repository. is there a way to download not through source-forge.

if the craft is in FGAddon, then you should be able to get it from the ibiblio mirror where the launcher pulls them from...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: Boeing 777 ,USAF (Tanker) , ALS ,CDU , ( X9 )

Postby B777-237LR » Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:51 am

When I try to download it the page is redirecting me to somewhere else, where I am unable to download the plane.
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Re: Boeing 777 ,USAF (Tanker) , ALS ,CDU , ( X9 )

Postby wkitty42 » Tue Nov 29, 2022 11:51 am

B777-237LR wrote in Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:51 am:When I try to download it the page is redirecting me to somewhere else, where I am unable to download the plane.

what URL are you trying to use? we cannot see what you are doing from this side of the screen...

EDIT: this one seems to work for me: http://mirrors.ibiblio.org/flightgear/ftp/Aircraft/

EDIT2: as does this one: http://mirrors.ibiblio.org/flightgear/ftp/Aircraft-2018/,
this one: http://mirrors.ibiblio.org/flightgear/ftp/Aircraft-2020/,
and this one: http://mirrors.ibiblio.org/flightgear/ftp/Aircraft-trunk/
trunk is the latest and matches with the next branch of FG whereas the others match with those YYYY versions of FG...
so maybe starting here http://mirrors.ibiblio.org/flightgear/ftp/ would lead you where you want to be?
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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