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North American T6 Texan

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North American T6 Texan

Postby xen_steda » Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:17 pm

Hello FG Community. The T6 Texan advanced training airplane is a very iconic and fun to fly plane (for me). I would really like to improve this already great looking aircraft.

The rating of this plane model in the FG Hangar is this:
Image

I would like to increase the Flight Model Rating for this plane but am not sure how to proceed. The Flightgear Rating system states that to reach 3 stars in that section:

3: FDM tuned for rate of climb and cruise Pilot Operating Handbook (PoH) performance numbers


I have an old PDF of the T-6G Texan Flight Manual that has a lot of good information that may help with the FDM. Anyone is welcome to download and use that manual, it was obtained legally and should be fine for referencing purposes.

I would also like to know if anyone who has flown a real T6 Texan or Harvard how this FG version compares.

Does it fly at all like the real T6? I only ask because it is a lot of fun to fly this, and it would be nice to know how accurate it really is.

I wonder if JSBSim would make it more accurate, is that the more realistic of the FDMs? Is anyone able to edit the FDM of this plane?

Thanks for any information!

Image
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Re: North American T6 Texan

Postby wkitty42 » Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:03 pm

making a JSBSim FDM would make it more accurate but you need to find the needed numbers... JSBSim is a lot more involved and wind tunnel numbers are almost a necessity...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: North American T6 Texan

Postby xen_steda » Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:23 pm

@wkitty42, do you know what parameters are needed exactly to make an accurate JSBSim version of this? I have that manual for the T-6G Texan, and there are a lot of specifications around page 65 to the end of the manual.

Where could we find any wind tunnel data for this plane (besides renting out one which is out of the question)?

I am definitely willing to help advance the development of this model, I just do not really know the steps to proceed. I see the throttle and fuel mixture as well as other cockpit instruments are missing but creating a more accurate FDM seems like the most important thing to me.
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Re: North American T6 Texan

Postby wkitty42 » Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:02 am

no clue... i know there's a few tools that can generate the necessary tables but right now i don't even recall what they are named...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: North American T6 Texan

Postby DFaber » Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:41 am

wkitty42 wrote in Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:03 pm:making a JSBSim FDM would make it more accurate but you need to find the needed numbers...


the current one leaves plenty of room to be improved. A good Yasim one can be better than a bad JSBSim.

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Re: North American T6 Texan

Postby xen_steda » Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:15 pm

I would definitely like to improve the current one, I'm not sure what needs to be added but I do have the Pilots Manual for the T-6 which has a lots of spec numbers like climb and other speeds.
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Re: North American T6 Texan

Postby Knüppelrührer » Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:23 pm

Performance numbers are only one side of the story and are more a reality check for the final FDM.

You need the actual aerodynamic coefficients, The only true ones are from wind tunnel or flight testing (or combination thereof)

An engineering background is beneficial. And even the pros need a lot of time to obtain good results

If you have interest, search for Aeromatic Datcom, OpenVSP as there are exzellent posts for those in various threads.
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Re: North American T6 Texan

Postby xen_steda » Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:33 pm

I do have interest in further developing this aircraft. Thanks for the information, I certainly do not have an engineering background it must be said.

The T6 is a featured racing group in the Reno Air Race, it would really nice to get this aircraft to a higher overall rating, as I'm sure it would get a lot of use by the Flightgear Community.

I will be continuing my quest to improve this FDM, the YASim version for now.

I would be super grateful if anyone with FDM development experience would like to assist in this endeavor. PM me or continue this thread if so.

Also, if anyone is able to contact the developer of this model, Emmanuel Baranger, that might be helpful too.
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Re: North American T6 Texan

Postby legoboyvdlp » Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:54 am

If it's yasim I don't think it can be much better than a 3 if the author marking the ratings is honest - for such an old aircraft there is likely to be a fair bit of data on the NASA Technical Report Server. It's definitely worth creating a JSBsim version.
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Re: North American T6 Texan

Postby DFaber » Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:01 am

legoboyvdlp wrote in Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:54 am:If it's yasim I don't think it can be much better than a 3


How do you know? Have you tried both?
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Re: North American T6 Texan

Postby enrogue » Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:26 am

I highly recommend Buckaroo's guide to YASim:

http://www.buckarooshangar.com/flightgear/yasimtut.html

YASim is great for learning how to build an FDM & it's not too hard to create something reasonable.
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Re: North American T6 Texan

Postby xen_steda » Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:43 am

enrogue wrote in Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:26 am:I highly recommend Buckaroo's guide to YASim


Thanks for sharing this link, I think this is a very informative guide for sure.
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Re: North American T6 Texan

Postby WoodSTokk » Thu Mar 05, 2020 3:14 pm

enrogue wrote in Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:26 am:I highly recommend Buckaroo's guide to YASim:

http://www.buckarooshangar.com/flightgear/yasimtut.html

YASim is great for learning how to build an FDM & it's not too hard to create something reasonable.


Yes, i absolutely confirm. I have played months with the YAsim-FDM for the Citation-II.
The guide is a little bit out dated, but its a great source of information.
Sometime its trial&error to find plausible values but the guide give much hints.
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Re: North American T6 Texan

Postby xen_steda » Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:28 pm

Hey everyone, the developer just released an update for this plane, there are some nice improvements including more cockpit instruments and model refinements.

Image
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Re: North American T6 Texan

Postby xen_steda » Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:10 pm

Hello FG Community, I was wondering if anyone has access to a real T6/SNJ (I'm guessing not) I would like to get that very identifiable "roar" of the T6 engine, and possibly that "buzz" sound of the prop (not sure if we can do one that in FG). Right now it is a decent engine noise, but I would like to improve it.

I have found these so far:
https://freesound.org/browse/tags/T6/
I'm not so sure these are usable but maybe.

If anyone has resources (audio, links, etc) that comply with the Flightgear GPL copyright requirement, or have suggestions on how to get better engine sounds, please post links here or PM me. Thanks!
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