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Piper PA28 Warrior II

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Re: Piper PA28 Warrior II

Postby D-ECHO » Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:25 pm

Ah, so you don't need the code that calculates the p-factor, but rather the setting/factor the aircraft needs for that.

That'll be in Aircraft/PA28/PA28-161-160.xml or Aircraft/PA28/PA28-161-180.xml, line 42. The location of your aircraft directory depends on your setup, if you have downloaded the aircraft using the launcher, iirc it's typically inside your FG_HOME folder, you can find its location here: https://wiki.flightgear.org/$FG_HOME#Windows

The value there is set to 5 currently. Just wondering, who has recommended to reduce it?
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Re: Piper PA28 Warrior II

Postby Robertfm » Sat Mar 06, 2021 2:05 pm

This in a discussion on FG. This is what was posted I think by Thorsten, the gist of the discussion was that with the lak of ailoron trim changing the value would reduce or element the left turning of the prop plane even when trimed. Thanks I will take a look, although I did look in the xml, must have missed it.

But back to your original question:
The p-factor is not hardcoded but can be found in the flight dynamics model of the aircraft. For the C172p, check out the file
Aircraft/c172p/c172p.xml
in your FlightGear data folder/directory.
Look for the <propulsion>, <engine>, <thruster> element and find the <p_factor> element.
You might want to play with the value of 10. A setting of 0 (zero) removes the effect of p-factor.

Edit: I found it thanks.
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Re: Piper PA28 Warrior II

Postby Octal450 » Sun Mar 07, 2021 12:51 am

I suggest leaving it be. The P factor was tuned to fit what I saw in my flying of the real plane.

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Re: Piper PA28 Warrior II

Postby Robertfm » Sun Mar 07, 2021 10:31 am

Please explain to me how if the plain is trimmed to level flight how it can be stopped from always banging left. It was my understanding and watching lots of real plane videos pilots do indeed take their hands off Yoke/stick for a 'long time'.
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Re: Piper PA28 Warrior II

Postby danielHL » Sun Mar 07, 2021 12:33 pm

Well, for me it's easy: 3000ft, 105kts, throttle about 75%, one tick right rudder trim. Flies straight enough that I can do other stuff and give it a gentle rudder input with the feet to keep it going where I want it to.

You should realize, flying small GA is not flying a Bus. You can only take your hands off the wheel on the calmest of days. Sometimes it sounds like you want to push a button to autoland the PA28 and if you're hand flying you expect it to go on rails. As for motion in small planes: have you ever flown in one? If not, take a few bucks, head out to your local airfield and ask a pilot if he'll take you up for a short ride. It is really nothing like sitting in the back of a commercial airliner.
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Re: Piper PA28 Warrior II

Postby Robertfm » Sun Mar 07, 2021 12:51 pm

You are totally wrong, my observations are based on a lot of reading of real pilot blogs and watching realpilot videos. Many of the things I ask about are commented on by real world GA pilots. One such thread on this topic. https://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-520167.html . No I haven't flown in real GA, or for that matter liners.

I have no problem with flying the plane, taking off/landing etc and on longer flights I use the AP. I have now been testing out the various suggestions I have read about or seen in training videos and I am finding it easier to S&L. As for Auto Land I leave that to the sim pilots who fly them, everything done for them automatically.
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Re: Piper PA28 Warrior II

Postby danielHL » Sun Mar 07, 2021 1:08 pm

Funny, I've read the same thing. And if you read my first two sentences again carefully, you see that I'm not "totally wrong".
Last edited by danielHL on Sun Mar 07, 2021 1:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Piper PA28 Warrior II

Postby Robertfm » Sun Mar 07, 2021 1:10 pm

Perhaps not totally. :):):)
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Re: Piper PA28 Warrior II

Postby Octal450 » Sun Mar 07, 2021 4:47 pm

Robertfm wrote in Sun Mar 07, 2021 10:31 am:Please explain to me how if the plain is trimmed to level flight how it can be stopped from always banging left. It was my understanding and watching lots of real plane videos pilots do indeed take their hands off Yoke/stick for a 'long time'.

You keep your foot a little on the right pedal. That's what we did in the real plane.

Kind Regards,
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Re: Piper PA28 Warrior II

Postby Robertfm » Sun Mar 07, 2021 5:18 pm

So hardly a restful flight still with GPS & AP I guess the need now is not that great.
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Re: Piper PA28 Warrior II

Postby Thorsten » Sun Mar 07, 2021 6:41 pm

You are totally wrong, my observations are based on a lot of reading of real pilot blogs and watching realpilot videos.


Wow, the things you can learn from YouTube these days really beat the real experience...

News flash - if you're in a real small plane, the hand grabs the stick. Minute adjustments with the stick all the time - not much, mind you - mostly nearly subconscious adjustments - just enough to keep it level. But definitely no letting go of the stick for an extended period of time, that's not working.

It's a bit like a bicycle - you don't notice the corrections you're applying all the time, but if you really stop them you fall hard within a few seconds. :evil:
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Re: Piper PA28 Warrior II

Postby D-ECHO » Sun Mar 07, 2021 7:38 pm

Robert, do you by chance have the links to videos where pilots fly "hands-off" for a longer period of time? I'd like to check them out.
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Re: Piper PA28 Warrior II

Postby Robertfm » Sun Mar 07, 2021 8:11 pm

I watch lots of videos but don't save them, sorry. Next time I do I will post it.
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Re: Piper PA28 Warrior II

Postby D-ECHO » Sun Mar 07, 2021 8:43 pm

Thank you and no problem
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Re: Piper PA28 Warrior II

Postby Robertfm » Sun Mar 07, 2021 8:54 pm

This is quick video using an Archer the plane stays in S&L hands off. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMTCl0PNf2Q
This one shows how little the pilot has to correct the Aileron when trimmed and the plane doesn't drift dramatically even though it's windy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bw6auJSG_9Q
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