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A320-family development

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Re: A320-family development

Postby Curtis » Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:01 am

Hello Josh,

Octal450 wrote in Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:29 am:Thx for texture bug notice, I will pass that to lego to check out (are you on linux? probably a file case problem)


Yes I use linux (archlinux), with the open source driver for the graphic card (radeon), included in the linux kernel (5.8.2).
Mesa version : 20.1.6

Octal450 wrote in Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:29 am:
Is it possible to know precisely what level of depth the airbus systems are simulated ?

I don't know how to answer that. Its very detailed.


I use this site to spot each feature/buttons of the A320 cockpit :
http://www.a320dp.com/A320_DP/menu.html

For each feature of the A320 it would be interesting to have an idea about the realism of the simulation (if all features of a given system have been implemented, or just a small part) : Fly-by-Wire, autopilot systems, FADEC, MCDU, ECAM pages, ADIR system, TCAS system, the realism of the electrical bus system, navigation display, weather radar, fuel management, hydraulics etc...
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Re: A320-family development

Postby CaptB » Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:19 am

Curtis wrote in Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:01 am:Hello Josh,

Octal450 wrote in Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:29 am:Thx for texture bug notice, I will pass that to lego to check out (are you on linux? probably a file case problem)


Yes I use linux (archlinux), with the open source driver for the graphic card (radeon), included in the linux kernel (5.8.2).
Mesa version : 20.1.6


Doubt that, I'm on Ubuntu 20.04 with a Radeon(RX580) with the FOSS driver, using the 3D branch which has the same pedestal and I have no such problem.
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Re: A320-family development

Postby Curtis » Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:07 am

CaptB wrote in Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:19 am:Doubt that, I'm on Ubuntu 20.04 with a Radeon(RX580) with the FOSS driver, using the 3D branch which has the same pedestal and I have no such problem.


The open source driver for AMD graphic cards is not the same for those who have old AMD cards like me :

- for old cards ( pre-GCN GPUs) the name of the open source driver is "radeon"
https://wiki.freedesktop.org/xorg/radeon/

- for modern cards like AMD RX580 : the name is "AMDGPU"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMDGPU

each version of driver can have its own bugs.
Last edited by Curtis on Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:40 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: A320-family development

Postby Curtis » Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:36 am

Curtis wrote in Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:07 am: I downloaded A320-family here, I wonder if it's the right location :
https://sourceforge.net/p/flightgear/fg ... 20-family/


Problem solved by downloading the 3D branch here :
https://github.com/legoboyvdlp/A320-family/tree/3D

Thanks to CaptB for pointing me in the right direction :) , the wiki page doesn't mention the github site (instead the download link points to sourceforge repository).
http://wiki.flightgear.org/Airbus_A320_Family

Now the pedestal is Ok, no texture problem.
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Re: A320-family development

Postby CaptB » Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:41 am

Curtis wrote in Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:36 am:
Curtis wrote in Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:07 am: I downloaded A320-family here, I wonder if it's the right location :
https://sourceforge.net/p/flightgear/fg ... 20-family/


Problem solved by downloading the 3D branch here :
https://github.com/legoboyvdlp/A320-family/tree/3D

Thanks to CaptB for pointing me in the right direction :) , the wiki page doesn't mention the github site (instead the download link points to sourceforge repository).
http://wiki.flightgear.org/Airbus_A320_Family

Now the pedestal is Ok, no texture problem.


Be advised, the 3D branch is bleeding edge for the model and texture and will break. You will not be able to use any present liveries.
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Re: A320-family development

Postby legoboyvdlp » Sat Aug 29, 2020 10:01 am

(Edit after re-reading your post) I haven't updated the fgaddon mirror with the fix for the file path issue -- I'll do it sometime later this week.
For general use, the dev branch is a stable state and this is merged into fgaddon periodically (usually every three to four weeks). My next merge is due, but would be interested to know, if you see this issue with the dev branch?

I will answer your systems question later. :)
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Re: A320-family development

Postby Curtis » Sat Aug 29, 2020 10:33 am

I tested also the dev branch, the pedestal is ok no bugs :).
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Re: A320-family development

Postby legoboyvdlp » Sat Aug 29, 2020 10:42 am

Curtis wrote in Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:12 am:Is it possible to know precisely what level of depth the airbus systems are simulated ?

How do you make sure you are correctly simulating airbus systems?
By consulting PDF documentation on airbus systems (I found some on the internet), being helped by a former airbus pilot ?
By making a comparison with an airbus A320 add-on from other flight simulators (flight simulator, xplane) ?


I have access to the air maintenance manuals -- that's the next level up from the flight crew operating manual, while below the wiring manuals. For instance, this describes the architecture of the electrical system at the bus level, showing each bus, as well as the connections, relays, switches between them. While, the FCOM merely shows the various buses, and configurations, without showing the connections between them. The wiring manual goes in at a macroscopic level to individual components and isn't really useful at all.

For instance, you may compare:

Image

Image


to the FCOM -- this is nowhere enough detail to make an accurate distribution network, so as you can see the AMM is quite essential :)

Image


Where the AMM is even more important is when it comes to system reconfiguration -- e.g. it describes the behaviour of relays in various configurations -- e.g. "what happens to the 1PC1 relay, whenever the 1PU1 rectifier is lost, causing DC bus 1PP to be lost?"

use this site to spot each feature/buttons of the A320 cockpit :
http://www.a320dp.com/A320_DP/menu.html

For each feature of the A320 it would be interesting to have an idea about the realism of the simulation (if all features of a given system have been implemented, or just a small part) : Fly-by-Wire, autopilot systems, FADEC, MCDU, ECAM pages, ADIR system, TCAS system, the realism of the electrical bus system, navigation display, weather radar, fuel management, hydraulics etc...


This is going to take a few hours to answer. I will draft this and edit this post when it is ready...
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Re: A320-family development

Postby Curtis » Sun Aug 30, 2020 8:01 am

Thanks for the information legoboyvdlp :).

Your strategy of absolute realism reminds me PMDG add-ons (for microsoft flight simulator, prepar3d, xplane),
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precision ... ment_Group

PMDG made incredible add-ons for boeing (737, 747, 777) where all systems are simulated, all buttons can be clicked, the result was playable even on a low-end PC,
I have PMDG add-on for 737-NG (flight simulator 2004), at the time I had good FPS (athlon XP 2400 Mhz, AGP graphic card radeon 9600),

that's why I wonder if there is a great room of improvement about the FPS for the A320-family in flightgear,
20 fps seems very low for a modern PC (intel i5 4670K 4 Core @ 3.40GHz, AMD Vega Frontier Edition), according to the message of Merspieler.

Perhaps by splitting the tasks to the other cores of the CPU (multithreading, parallel programming) and reducing the complexity of nasal loops you could increase the FPS, I don't know if multithreading is allowed in nasal or if all the tasks can be run only in sequential mode on a single CPU core (limitations of flightgear which prevent to optimize further more the nasal code).
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Re: A320-family development

Postby legoboyvdlp » Sun Aug 30, 2020 1:44 pm

  • ATA21 Air conditioning -- Good, we have the various items represented. Cabin temperature is not however simulated. That comes later with pressurization system.
  • ATA22 Autoflight -- Good to excellent - there is a lot of work to do here. But, we have a usable, stable autopilot and FMGC. Work here is stalled waiting on C++ changes.
  • ATA23 Communication -- only frontally simulated, we have 8.33 radios. But, flightgear built-in radios are a bit limiting here.
  • ATA24 Electrical -- very well done in terms of electrical sources and distribution. And, where possible, all devices in other systems use correct electrical bus sourcing. Unfortunately, power + load is not there yet. That is a large component missing.
  • ATA26 fire protection -- completed, various detectors + extinguishing bottles simulated, and the ECAM warnings.
  • ATA27 flight controls -- very accurately done - thanks to Octal450!
  • ATA28 fuel -- completed, we have all tanks with accurate weights, unusable fuel, fuel transfers, valves and so on.
  • ATA29 hydraulics -- poor to average, we have only a very basic system. The pumps are well simulated, but not the accumulators, varying pressures, load demand and response, etc.
  • ATA30 ice protection -- needs revisited, but sufficient for now. Engine and Wing was redone with the pneumatic system with valves and so on. We need to revisit the actual icing (accumulation of ice on the airframe).
  • ATA32 landing gear -- very basic. On the list!
  • ATA33 lights -- lights have correct power sources. We have the lit up cockpit and external, which will be probably redone with the new model.
  • ATA34 navigation -- ADR are very well done - you can have accurate failures and air data switching. IR is not done at all yet. I am not sure if it will be done at all.
  • ATA36 pneumatic -- completed. Obviously we are not going to simulate air molecules... :) But, we have the sources, valves, distributions and temperatures completed.
  • ATA49 apu -- completed. We have a complete simulation of the electronic control, as well as the oil system.


In terms of the "completed" systems, I would be confident that this could stand with any commercial product, and certainly at a greater depth than the Aerosoft A320 -- but that is to be expected, as they made the decision not to go in in much depth, so that is not any criticism of their product.
But there remains much work to be done yet... :)
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Re: A320-family development

Postby Johan G » Sun Aug 30, 2020 9:30 pm

Some posts were split off to the new topic Nasal, multitreading and performance.
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Re: A320-family development

Postby dom_vc10 » Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:41 am

legoboyvdlp wrote in Sun Aug 30, 2020 12:54 pm:I think you are right about nasal loops. I have been working on reducing the intensity of loops and also rewriting older code to be more efficient. I may consider an iteration counter and / or event-driven programming (i.e. listeners) rather than a monolithic loop. I also believe a large contributor was the ECAM. What I discovered a few non-critical JSBSim systems were running at 120hz and that made some weaker CPU's struggle.


Threads aren't really viable in Nasal as property tree isn't thread-safe. It can be done for certain things, but you need to be very very very careful with it.
So, I think if you update, you might well see 25-30 frames per second...?

As for multithreading in general, the situation at present is that only parts of the renderer are multithreaded - in effect, very little is threaded nevermind multicore.


OOh sounds promising. I have been wanting to ask if there is anything I can do with my system to get slightly better fps with with the a320. When the aircraft is cold and dark my fps are around 45-50 but as soon as I started it up it would be 15-20. Anywhere around 20 and above seems ideal to me so going to update today and test it out, thanks!
Last edited by Johan G on Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Link to quoted post added for less confusion as this post was moved from a split off topic back to this topic where this post is not off-topic.
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Re: A320-family development

Postby Octal450 » Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:11 pm

few non-critical JSBSim systems were running at 120hz]

I tested this on some older CPUs (Intel 720QM) and found the difference to be negligible. Nasal seems to be far heavier on the frames, which is why so much FPS is lost when the plane is powered on.

Kind Regards,
Josh
What I do: Flight Dynamics, Systems, Canvas Displays, Autoflight, FlyByWire, Cockpit Animations
Aircraft I currently develop: MD-11 (Mainly), Secret, A320-family (Quality over Quantity)

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Re: A320-family development

Postby dom_vc10 » Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:46 am

seems you're right. I didn't notice anything significant but it was staying close to 20fps sometimes jumping to 25, which is fully usable for me :D
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Re: A320-family development

Postby OE-LML » Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:40 pm

Hallo!

I just updated from aircraft revision 20 and FG 2019.1.2 to aircraft revision 38 and FG 2020.1.3. First of all: great job! So many new features and MCDU pages I don't understand. :D :mrgreen:
But unfortunately I'm facing a problem with the cockpit displays. They seem to be too bright/colorful that for example in the PFD I have difficulties to to see the FD on the blue background when climbing. I've already turned back brighness (with the "brightness-knob) which works until you change course and the light shines from another angle into the cockpit. Then the displays are mostly too dark and invisible. Also if the brightness is reduced the PFD seems to be a bit "dirty" or maybe the background of the panel shows through? Never had the problem with any revision (20 or below) of the plane before.
ALS is on, I'm using Win10 and a RX590 GPU ...

Is this a known issue or is the problem on my side (wrong FG-version, ...)?
Anyway: thx in advance for your help.

cu.
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