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A320-family development

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Re: A320-family development

Postby Curtis » Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:15 am

Hello,

I tested the A320 family on an old PC (intel core 2 quad Q9650 3 Ghz, 8 Gb ram, amd radeon 4650 Pcie, archlinux),
the plane seems to consume more CPU and GPU resources than the other airliners (boeing 777-seattle, A380, boeing 787), the FPS drop from 40 to 15~25.

What are the minimum hardware requirements for a good FPS performance when using A320 family (the goal is to get at least 30 FPS) ?

Is there a room of improvement for A320 family, in order to decrease the CPU/GPU consumption ?

Thanks.
Last edited by Curtis on Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: A320-family development

Postby legoboyvdlp » Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:32 am

Hi,

Yes, there is somewhat. This aircraft does require more hardware, simply due to the complexity of the systems. It appears that the aircraft is mostly CPU limited rather than GPU limited.

However, I have actually done some rather major chages recently which increased performance by roughly 25% for me -- I assume you have updated recently?
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Re: A320-family development

Postby merspieler » Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:35 am

Hey Curtis,

I can't really give you hardware requirements.
On my system it's probably the CPU (Intel i5 4670K 4 Core @ 3.40GHz) bottlenecking the GPU (AMD Vega Frontier Edition) as I can as well get ~20 fps with that rather strong GPU (but probably on higher settings).

With a weak GPU like yours, there are much more issues tho. The low amount of VRAM and the resolution and settings you play at.

We are improving the performance of the systems to reduce CPU load but keep in mind, that the A320 is very complex and well developed (in contrast to like the A380 which is even more complex but most stuff isn't simulated).

As for GPU consumption... there's a new model coming which was redone with performance in mind (the old model has single antenas with a few thousand vertices) but at the same time we highly increase quality so not sure, how the impact is with that (especially on cards with very little VRAM).

Anyway, next month there will be new hardware launched so you could get some shiny new one or get a good deal of last generation hardware. ;-)
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Re: A320-family development

Postby Curtis » Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:44 am

Yes I may have a new PC at the end of the year, a ryzen 7 CPU, with a more modern AMD graphic card (RX580 or something similar).

legoboyvdlp wrote in Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:32 am:Hi,

Yes, there is somewhat. This aircraft does require more hardware, simply due to the complexity of the systems. It appears that the aircraft is mostly CPU limited rather than GPU limited.

However, I have actually done some rather major chages recently which increased performance by roughly 25% for me -- I assume you have updated recently?


I use flightgear 2019.1.1, and the last A320 family compatible version with flightgear 2019.1.1 is quite old (a version from october 2019 I think), if I download the last version of A320 family then I get a warning message about the fact that this version requires at least flightgear 2019.1.2.

The boeing 777 (which has also a high level of realism) doesn't have peformance problem, the simulation is smooth (40 FPS, sometimes 50), it would be great if A320 family can also reach this smoothness on modest hardware, by using optimization, tricks ?
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Re: A320-family development

Postby legoboyvdlp » Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:56 am

by using optimization, tricks ?


Well, the point is that those are available, but for whatever reason you don't want to update to some version, where you can then update your version? To be quite frank, if you want to use an older version, it's not really my business - I can't force you to update, but I also simply don't have the time to backport things to older versions.

The Boeing 777 has a good 3D mode but the systems depth is entirely minimal.
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Re: A320-family development

Postby Curtis » Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:59 am

No problem, soon I will update to the last version of flightgear and A320 family (I will compile flightgear 2020 preview version, if your add-on is compatible, otherwise I will compile 2019.1.2),

my distro linux (archlinux) doesn't provide binary flightgear package, we had to compile from the AUR repository in order to create a package, that why I am sometimes lazy to update.
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Re: A320-family development

Postby merspieler » Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:08 pm

Well... your hardware is 12 years old.
At some point you have to make a cut for support.

This wiki article names 512MB VRAM as minimun, which you don't even have... and that recommendation is rather outdated.

So I wouldn't really bother with your current setup and go and get the new one you seem to already have in mind.

See as well this wiki entry: http://wiki.flightgear.org/FlightGear_and_old_Hardware


As for version... you can build the latest and the A320 will run with it.
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Re: A320-family development

Postby Curtis » Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:21 pm

merspieler wrote in Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:08 pm:This wiki article names 512MB VRAM as minimun, which you don't even have... and that recommendation is rather outdated.


My amd radeon 4650 pcie has 1 Gb vram :).

It's an old PC but I manage to survive by lowering the resolution and some visual options when I play to flightgear, it's is still playable with airliners.

My next PC will allow me to play at better resolution and FPS.
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Re: A320-family development

Postby Octal450 » Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:32 pm

I suggest to try the nightlies and the latest 320. As older less-optimized code is replaced with more optimized code it will continue to improve the FPS.

I occasionally test on the following machine:
HP Pavilion dv7
i7-720QM
8GB RAM
GT230M 1GB

I find that the performance is enough to fly with some settings lowered (20-30) but it will improve more.

Kind Regards,
Josh
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Re: A320-family development

Postby merspieler » Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:47 pm

Curtis wrote in Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:21 pm:My amd radeon 4650 pcie has 1 Gb vram :).

then this site confused me https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/r ... -4650.c233 , sorry...
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Re: A320-family development

Postby V12 » Fri Aug 28, 2020 2:31 pm

Curtis wrote in Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:44 am:Yes I may have a new PC at the end of the year, a ryzen 7 CPU, with a more modern AMD graphic card (RX580 or something .

If You can, avoid AMD CPU. I have R7 3700X, but FG performance is very similar with i5-2550K or i3-9100K. AMD has very big memory controller latency and poor single core performance. That R7 was my big mistake. i7-9700K is much better choice.

AMD GPUs are good known troublemakers with OpenGL, avoid them too.
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Re: A320-family development

Postby merspieler » Fri Aug 28, 2020 7:02 pm

V12: Wait, what the new AMDs will do ;-)
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Re: A320-family development

Postby Curtis » Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:12 am

I am curious : in the github site of A320-family project we can read this :

A very advanced simulation of the Airbus A320 Family for FlightGear.

Flight Dyanmics: Josh Davidson (Octal450)
Systems: Josh Davidson (Octal450), Jonathan Redpath (legoboyvdlp), merspieler, Matthew Maring (mattmaring)
Displays: Josh Davidson (Octal450), Jonathan Redpath (legoboyvdlp), merspieler, Matthew Maring (mattmaring)
3D/Textures: Thorsten Herrmann (TH-555), Semir Gebran (CaptB)


Is it possible to know precisely what level of depth the airbus systems are simulated ?

How do you make sure you are correctly simulating airbus systems?
By consulting PDF documentation on airbus systems (I found some on the internet), being helped by a former airbus pilot ?
By making a comparison with an airbus A320 add-on from other flight simulators (flight simulator, xplane) ?
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Re: A320-family development

Postby Curtis » Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:11 am

I have just installed flightgear 2020.1.3 and the last version of a320-family from sourceforge.net (revision 38, or r5122),
the FPS are still low with my old PC (12~15 FPS) with A320 family, no improvement.

I notice 2 problems :

- missing part on the pedestal : I see a white plate instead of textures and buttons (on older versions of A320 family it was Ok) :
Image

- the auto-coordination feature doesn't work when using a mouse, the rudder doesn't move (except if I press the left button while moving the mouse),
it's a bug I notice also on some airliners (boeing 777), small planes like cessna C172P don't have this problem
Last edited by Curtis on Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:35 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: A320-family development

Postby Octal450 » Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:29 am

- the auto-coordination feature doesn't work when using a mouse

Intentional, auto-coordination is quite stupid. Using it would cause problems with any airliner with a realistic flight control system (such as the A320, MD-11..)
So we kill that if you turn it on, and slave aileron to rudder so you can taxi. Sorry, but there is really no better solution at the moment.

Thx for texture bug notice, I will pass that to lego to check out (are you on linux? probably a file case problem)

Is it possible to know precisely what level of depth the airbus systems are simulated ?

I don't know how to answer that. Its very detailed.

Kind Regards,
josh
What I do: Flight Dynamics, Systems, Canvas Displays, Autoflight, FlyByWire, Cockpit Animations
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