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An Update from IDG Regarding Aircraft Development

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Re: An Update from IDG Regarding Aircraft Development

Postby bugman » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:43 pm

The 2019.2 release is on it's way and, when out, I would assume that you will point your users to that version.

Octal450 wrote in Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:25 pm:It has been too long since new features are available and I do not really want to wait much longer.


At no point in any discussion has anyone said you should. You are missing the point by 207,600 nautical miles!!! That's the distance to the moon by the way ;)

Developers develop on the HEAD repository revisions! That means developing using the latest features, even if not released. But what if you have a user who will not upgrade to the FG version you tell them to because they want to stay on their stable 2018.3 version? This is where the concept of repository branching and tagging comes in. I highly recommend you read about the benefits of these Version Control concepts. And how a user using a 2018.3 branch or tag of your aircraft will not have to upgrade their FG just to use your aircraft.

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Re: An Update from IDG Regarding Aircraft Development

Postby Thorsten » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:58 pm

you only complain now because you don't like that more people will use 2019.1.


No, I'm complaining about what I said (was that so hard to understand): you denounce a legitimate consensus as 'nonsense' Why on Earth would I complain about people using 2019.1? They can use nightlies as far as I'm concerned - as long as they live with the problems their choice entails 8)

It seems a tactic to keep people on 2018.3 for some bizarre reason and I'm just not going to tolerate it.


I advise you to tolerate other opinions because all else will be rather frustrating for you. Generally - if you want to release your planes for 2019.1, 2019.2 or even next - please do so - that's fine with me. But please do so without applying rude language to the FG release plan or individual developers and without claiming how much it hinders you - because it really does not if you use git branches.
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Re: An Update from IDG Regarding Aircraft Development

Postby Octal450 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:19 pm

Edward: Well that depends - if 2019.2 comes out as "unstable" but is broken - then I will not. But if our tests find no faults either with the sim or aircraft, we will likely push for 2019.2 to finally eliminate the "mapstructure" bug at least, until we rewrite the ND anyways. I FULLY understand the concept of what you are saying, and I am telling you that we decided it is not worth the effort to maintain separate branches between versions. Just because I have a different opinion does not mean that missed the point. Next, I also never said that someone said I should wait - but obviously - if the release is not stable then I have to, as I don't bother with unstable versions. But the thing is, it is stable, coming from MANY different people. So I am :)

Thorsten: You guys say its unstable, but in my tests its fully stable and thus to me nonsense. Don't get offended by my opinion - I would assume you should be happy that your release is deemed stabler than you think! :mrgreen:
I actually am very tolerant. Just for some reason people think when I show the slightest bit of frustration people suddently think I am "rude" or "angry" or "damaging FG" as you implied with your whole referring to FGMEMBERS thing. (which, by the way, I no longer use/contribute too and haven't for a long time now - we only support users to get it from our repo because I can't account for other's changes)

So - I think you simply are overreacting and taking frustrating and turning it into an attack - don't do this!

Now - I don't totally care - on my end everything is ok now because we have a NICE STABLE FG 2019.1 that I can use and develop for. You guys are the only people who have a problem with this decision! So far all our users who responded, did so positively to our announcement. I'm guess neither of you fly my airplanes anyways so don't waste my time with complaints.

Kind Regards,
Josh
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Re: An Update from IDG Regarding Aircraft Development

Postby Richard » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:08 pm

Octal450 wrote in Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:19 pm:You guys are the only people who have a problem with this decision! So far all our users who responded, did so positively to our announcement.


I think this is all a bit of a fuss over nothing; with miscommunication and misunderstanding.

I don't have a problem, and I suspect none of the other core developers have a problem with what version you use or promote for use with your models. Yours is a special case because of the hard work and active development that you put in.

I can also understand that it seems like a backwards step to you for the core devs to spend time on 2018.3 - but largely it's a case of a bit of merging work in git and the mostly the rest is automated; but also for the (perceived) average user it seems also sensible to do this as some of the new features aren't finished.

We're just trying to increase the overall quality of the stable release and also accelerate development by having time to let features get finished and tested in time for the next stable release - whilst at the same time making the interim 4 1 2 versions available.
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Re: An Update from IDG Regarding Aircraft Development

Postby Octal450 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:12 pm

Richard, that doesn't totally make sense:
I don't have a problem, and I suspect none of the other core developers have a problem with what version you use or promote for use with your models. Yours is a special case because of the hard work and active development that you put in.

What do you mean here? If mine is a special case? Howso, and also, does that make it a problem?

If there was no problem, then what is with the "WOW :( OH WOW" and such replies.

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Josh
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Re: An Update from IDG Regarding Aircraft Development

Postby wkitty42 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:42 pm

Octal450 wrote in Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:22 pm:Dear Edward with all due respect 2019.2 is not a "release" yet that seemed like a stable to everybody who look in sourceforge. And 2019.1 I tested the RC months ago and found no issues. I made short tests last night and everything looked good.

did you tag your aircraft in your git at that point so that users know they can use that revision in their 2019.1?

my comment i initially made was because it just seems to me to be an "overboard/extreme reaction" that really isn't warranted... you really should be tagging your craft as compliant with specific FG RCs and/or releases... but if you go and blow the whole repo away you've just killed that capability for someone to get one of your craft for their 2016.2 and 2018.1... tags don't take any room and they identify the point at which compatibility with one FG version and another may diverge... you could even branch and tag... that way, fixes could be applied to the branch and then ""ported"" to the master or development branch... if the fix is already in the master or development branch, it could be cherry picked to the tagged branch... then folks only need update their craft from that branch (since it is matched to the FG version) and they get the fix... you don't have multiple versions to muck about with either... only branches that might need a bugfix here or there... but at some point, those branches are historical archives only and you don't have to fix them any more...

anyway, yeah, this is the second time i've had to blow away my clones of your repos because of throwing them completely away and starting over... the last time it happened i could have renamed my local ones if i had known but it was too late when i realized because i had already run my update script and the new update was whack since the old stuff was completely gone...
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"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: An Update from IDG Regarding Aircraft Development

Postby Octal450 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:49 pm

Dear wkitty, I guess should I clarify
Wiping the repo has nothing to do with the version change. We need to rewrite the plane anyways, but were waiting on the new FG to take advantage of some stuff.

The first commit on the new repo will be the 2018.3.X compatible version which is forced 2018.3.0 or later (since February). Only from there will be the versioning changed to 2019.1 as soon as the first merge from DetailedSystems goes into master.

We do not support using outdated aircraft versions and thus leave that to uncharted water.

anyway, yeah, this is the second time i've had to blow away my clones of your repos because of throwing them completely away and starting over... the last time it happened i could have renamed my local ones if i had known but it was too late when i realized because i had already run my update script and the new update was whack since the old stuff was completely gone...

We had full instructions on renaming the local git names to the new ones on the forums - that one is not our fault sorry!

But we will continue to provide you with high quality aircraft regardless of your opinions on our decision :mrgreen:
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Kind Regards,
Josh
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