Board index FlightGear Development Aircraft

Bombardier QSeries

Questions and discussion about creating aircraft. Flight dynamics, 3d models, cockpits, systems, animation, textures.

Re: Bombardier QSeries

Postby islandmonkey » Sat May 25, 2019 10:16 pm

Having trouble trying to get autothrottle to work properly on the Q400.

EDIT: as of writing this, moving the condition levers back down to max 900 activates thrust mode MCL (from NTOP) But still can't get any autothrottle to work...

Also I was manually fiddling around with the throttles through the actual levers. They are now stuck on max 15%, even though I'm still going full pelt in NTOP mode at about IAS 225 KTS at FL260. 15% throttle but 89% TRQ.

I have FMS mode activated also. It is stuck on the same amount of distance on the PFD as it was when I switched NAV SOURCE on the autopilot panel. The waypoint name does change, however.
User avatar
islandmonkey
 
Posts: 784
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:51 pm
Location: EGCN (uni), EGHI (home)
Callsign: G-MNKY
Version: 2018.3
OS: Ubuntu 19.04

Re: Bombardier QSeries

Postby Octal450 » Sun May 26, 2019 3:18 am

There is no autothrottle exits on the Q400. The A/T button in the IT-AUTOFLIGHT dialog is a dummy because it was disabled when installed (I really should hide the button... hmm)

Kind Regards,
Josh
Don't ever contact me about FlightGear again.
Octal450
 
Posts: 4391
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:51 pm

Re: Bombardier QSeries

Postby D-ECHO » Sun May 26, 2019 5:32 am

Hi @islandmonkey,
as Josh has already stated, autothrottle does not exist in the real QSeries (nor in any other turboprop airliner I am aware of) as well as in our simulation.

About throttle: I am not really sure I understand what your problem is there, it would be great if you could describe it in more detail. Please note though that TRQ is not proportional to throttle setting (which actually is power setting, ...)

About the PFD distance shown: could you have a look if you have any errors in your console and send them if so?
User avatar
D-ECHO
 
Posts: 1515
Joined: Sat May 09, 2015 12:31 pm

Re: Bombardier QSeries

Postby islandmonkey » Mon May 27, 2019 12:19 pm

Alright, thanks for that info. I got confused since there is an autothrottle option in the autopilot menu, and also saw 'IAS', but alas no place to change the speed. I learnt that that is like the FLCH button in Boeing aircraft. I guess it would be useful to remove it to prevent further confusion.

I clicked/scrolled on the throttle levers during level flight and sent them down to idle. After this, they would not go any higher than 15% throttle, despite the fact that I was still able to control speed. I do note that updates were released yesterday. I had a bit of a bash from Jersey to Southampton and could not reproduce the problem I had on Saturday going from Frankfurt to Southampton. If I see this happen again I'll let you know.

I also need to actually get to the console, since I launch flight gear with the launcher. I'll get back to you on this one. No errors that I could find shoring up in the console. No complaints from nasal.

I'll go through a few more things as well when I can. Otherwise, thanks for this decent aircraft! Four years of basically not doing much with FlightGear and then I come back to find a decently modelled Southampton Airport, and now the aircraft to go with it! Thanks a lot.
User avatar
islandmonkey
 
Posts: 784
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:51 pm
Location: EGCN (uni), EGHI (home)
Callsign: G-MNKY
Version: 2018.3
OS: Ubuntu 19.04

Re: Bombardier QSeries

Postby Alant » Mon May 27, 2019 12:44 pm

D-ECHO wrote in Sun May 26, 2019 5:32 am:Hi @islandmonkey,
as Josh has already stated, autothrottle does not exist in the real QSeries (nor in any other turboprop airliner I am aware of) as well as in our simulation.



Nearly true, but what about the C130 and PC12 ?
Alant
 
Posts: 912
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:58 am
Location: Portugal
Callsign: Tarnish99
Version: from Git
OS: Windows 10

Re: Bombardier QSeries

Postby D-ECHO » Mon May 27, 2019 1:32 pm

@islandmonkey thank you :) (and: you're welcome :D )
@Alant: damn, you caught me there ;)
User avatar
D-ECHO
 
Posts: 1515
Joined: Sat May 09, 2015 12:31 pm

Re: Bombardier QSeries

Postby Alant » Mon May 27, 2019 2:14 pm

I forgot the A400. ;)
Alant
 
Posts: 912
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:58 am
Location: Portugal
Callsign: Tarnish99
Version: from Git
OS: Windows 10

Re: Bombardier QSeries

Postby legoboyvdlp » Mon May 27, 2019 10:43 pm

To be fair those aren't exactly airliners :P
User avatar
legoboyvdlp
 
Posts: 7007
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:28 am
Callsign: YV-LEGO
Version: 2018.3.1
OS: Windows 10 HP

Re: Bombardier QSeries

Postby CaptB » Tue May 28, 2019 8:12 am

The PC-12 has no authrottle. It is available from another company as an upgrade. C130 also does not have one, at least the old ones didn't. Neither does the SAAB and ATR turboprops and probably all the others. Also, the jet engined ERJ has none, which makes it rather fun to fly(in a sim)

FYI extensive PC-12 documentation(Manuals and maintenance manuals) are available directly from pilatus https://www.pilatus-aircraft.com/en/customer-support/publications
CaptB
 
Posts: 521
Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 6:36 pm
Callsign: EKCH_AP
IRC name: CAPTB
Version: 2018.1
OS: Xubuntu, Win7 64

Re: Bombardier QSeries

Postby Alant » Tue May 28, 2019 8:29 am

The C130-J does have an autothrottle.
Alant
 
Posts: 912
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:58 am
Location: Portugal
Callsign: Tarnish99
Version: from Git
OS: Windows 10

Re: Bombardier QSeries

Postby islandmonkey » Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:49 pm

Okay, so here we go:
    No pass signs sounds, even if buttons to switch them on and off
    Dome light not working, even if button to switch on and off works (the other button next to it doesn't however?)
    CDU nasal errors causing it to crash (see imgur files)
    Stick shaker sound activated while on ground under a particular speed (didn't catch which and no problems of such when taxiing after landing, but I might have had the shaker go on me after landing previously...).
    No copilot CDU
    'ALL' button shows door config on systems panel
    ILS doesn't engage(? see imgur file, even doing it in the default radio menu doesn't do anything. at least doesn't appear up in map)
    No indication of TAS on nav display
    No indication of distance to waypoint on nav display
    No windscreen wipers, but button to turn them on works nonetheless
    HUD has Mach numbers either side of airspeed indicator, but they don't show anything other than '.000'
    ILS not working, at least, it doesn't show up on the map, and APPR does nothing when clicked
    More of a feature request, but cabin altitude dials don't work

https://imgur.com/a/yAO59RT
User avatar
islandmonkey
 
Posts: 784
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:51 pm
Location: EGCN (uni), EGHI (home)
Callsign: G-MNKY
Version: 2018.3
OS: Ubuntu 19.04

Re: Bombardier QSeries

Postby D-ECHO » Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:35 pm

Thank you for the feedback!

islandmonkey wrote in Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:49 pm:No pass signs sounds, even if buttons to switch them on and off

fixed, was due to the sound using a wrong property

islandmonkey wrote in Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:49 pm:Dome light not working, even if button to switch on and off works (the other button next to it doesn't however?)

yep, dome light has to be correctly implemented yet, is a TODO

islandmonkey wrote in Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:49 pm:CDU nasal errors causing it to crash (see imgur files)

Haven't encountered that yet, could you give the exact steps you did to reproduce?

islandmonkey wrote in Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:49 pm:Stick shaker sound activated while on ground under a particular speed (didn't catch which and no problems of such when taxiing after landing, but I might have had the shaker go on me after landing previously...).

I basically don't understand what you mean

islandmonkey wrote in Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:49 pm:No copilot CDU

confirmed, will have to find the error, is a TODO

islandmonkey wrote in Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:49 pm:'ALL' button shows door config on systems panel

(for me) the ALL button cycles through MFD pages, can you confirm this happens for you as well?

islandmonkey wrote in Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:49 pm:ILS doesn't engage(? see imgur file, even doing it in the default radio menu doesn't do anything. at least doesn't appear up in map)

Was a failure in the electrical system, should be fixed now.

islandmonkey wrote in Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:49 pm:No indication of TAS on nav display

should be fixed now

islandmonkey wrote in Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:49 pm:No indication of distance to waypoint on nav display

should be fixed now

islandmonkey wrote in Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:49 pm:No windscreen wipers, but button to turn them on works nonetheless

to be made, TODO

islandmonkey wrote in Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:49 pm:HUD has Mach numbers either side of airspeed indicator, but they don't show anything other than '.000'

TODO

islandmonkey wrote in Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:49 pm:ILS not working, at least, it doesn't show up on the map, and APPR does nothing when clicked

Please check again, might be related to #7

islandmonkey wrote in Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:49 pm:More of a feature request, but cabin altitude dials don't work

TODO
User avatar
D-ECHO
 
Posts: 1515
Joined: Sat May 09, 2015 12:31 pm

Re: Bombardier QSeries

Postby rjrm » Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:14 pm

I have changed a few things around and have managed to make the Q400 climb at the right vertical and lateral speed (e.g. V/S 2200 with speed climb 210). I did this by adjusting the function of engine RPM and N1.

File: PW150A.xml

Code: Select all
  <table name="EnginePowerRPM_N1" type="internal">
    <description> Engine Power, function of RPM and N1 </description>
    <tableData>
   0   5   65   70   80   90   104
0   .00   .50   .50   .50   .50   .50   .50
500   .00   .50   500   1000   1500   2000   2500
850   .00   .50   1000   2000   2700   2900   3200
900   .00   .50   1000   2000   2950   3200   3400
1020   .00   .50   1000   2000   2500   3000   3700
1220   .00   .50   1000   2000   2500   3000   3700<!--
1400   .00   .50   37.79   314.88   629.76   839.68   1049.60
1550   .00   .50   45.43   349.44   698.88   931.84   1164.80
1700   .00   .50   53.76   384.00   768.00   1024.00   1280.00-->


I need to adjust the torque values because they display numbers too high (132%).

I have also adjusted the positions of weights (e.g. fuel tanks over the wing).

The combination of these changes means that when I take off, the tail does not strike the runway anymore. Whereas before, even the slightest rotation caused a tail strike with the runway.

File: q400-jsb.xml

Code: Select all
   <propulsion>
      <engine file="PW150A">
         <location unit="M">
            <x> -2.23 </x>
            <y>-4.3686 </y>
            <z> 3.37 </z>
         </location>
         <orient unit="DEG">
            <roll> 0.0 </roll>
            <pitch> 0.0 </pitch>
            <yaw> 0.0 </yaw>
         </orient>
            <feed>0</feed>
            <feed>1</feed>
         <thruster file="R408">
            <location unit="M">
               <x> -3.39427 </x>
               <y> -4.36282 </y>
               <z> 3.37 </z>
            </location>
            <orient unit="DEG">
               <roll> 0.0 </roll>
               <pitch> 0.0 </pitch>
               <yaw> 0.0 </yaw>
            </orient>
         </thruster>
      </engine>

      <engine file="PW150A">
         <location unit="M">
            <x> -2.23 </x>
            <y>4.3686 </y>
            <z> 3.37 </z>
         </location>
         <orient unit="DEG">
            <roll> 0.0 </roll>
            <pitch> 0.0 </pitch>
            <yaw> 0.0 </yaw>
         </orient>
            <feed>0</feed>
            <feed>1</feed>
         <thruster file="R408">
            <location unit="M">
               <x> -3.39427 </x>
               <y> 4.36282 </y>
               <z> 3.37 </z>
            </location>
            <orient unit="DEG">
               <roll> 0.0 </roll>
               <pitch> 0.0 </pitch>
               <yaw> 0.0 </yaw>
            </orient>
         </thruster>
      </engine>

      <tank type="FUEL"> <!-- Left Wing Tank -->
         <location unit="M">
            <x> 0.37127 </x>
            <y> -4.39 </y>
            <z> 3.61 </z>
         </location>
         <capacity unit="LBS"> 5850 </capacity>
         <contents unit="LBS"> 5000 </contents>
         
         <priority>1</priority>
         <type>JET-A1</type>
      </tank>

      <tank type="FUEL"> <!-- Right Wing Tank -->
         <location unit="M">
            <x> 0.37127 </x>
            <y> 4.39 </y>
            <z> 3.61 </z>
         </location>
         <capacity unit="LBS"> 5850 </capacity>
         <contents unit="LBS"> 5000 </contents>
         
         <priority>1</priority>
         <type>JET-A1</type>
      </tank>
   </propulsion>


Code: Select all
      <pointmass name="Cockpit Crew">
         <weight unit="LBS">400</weight>
         <location name="POINTMASS" unit="M">
            <x> -11.55 </x>
            <y> 0 </y>
            <z> 2.2 </z>
         </location>
      </pointmass>

      <pointmass name="PAX Front">
         <weight unit="LBS">300</weight>
         <location name="POINTMASS" unit="M">
            <x> -5.5 </x>
            <y> 0 </y>
            <z> 2.2 </z>
         </location>
      </pointmass>

      <pointmass name="PAX Rear">
         <weight unit="LBS">300</weight>
         <location name="POINTMASS" unit="M">
            <x> 4.2 </x>
            <y> 0 </y>
            <z> 2.4 </z>
         </location>
      </pointmass>

      <pointmass name="Cargo">
         <weight unit="LBS">0</weight>
         <location name="POINTMASS" unit="M">
            <x> 9.2 </x>
            <y> 0 </y>
            <z> 2.4 </z>
         </location>
      </pointmass>
   </mass_balance>


File: q400-jsb-set.xml

Code: Select all
   <payload>
      <weight n="0">
         <name>Cockpit Crew</name>
         <weight-lb alias="/fdm/jsbsim/inertia/pointmass-weight-lbs[0]" />
         <min-lb type="double">200</min-lb>
         <max-lb type="double">440</max-lb>
      </weight>
      <weight n="1">
         <name>PAX Front (43 seats)</name>
         <weight-lb alias="/fdm/jsbsim/inertia/pointmass-weight-lbs[1]" />
         <min-lb type="double">300</min-lb>
         <max-lb type="double">5000</max-lb>
      </weight>
      <weight n="2">
         <name>PAX Rear (43 seats)</name>
         <weight-lb alias="/fdm/jsbsim/inertia/pointmass-weight-lbs[2]" />
         <min-lb type="double">300</min-lb>
         <max-lb type="double">5000</max-lb>
      </weight>
      <weight n="3">
         <name>Cargo</name>
         <weight-lb alias="/fdm/jsbsim/inertia/pointmass-weight-lbs[3]" />
         <min-lb type="double">0</min-lb>
         <max-lb type="double">4710</max-lb>
      </weight>
   </payload>


I have also fixed where the turbine background sound can be heard if the throttle is idled:

Code: Select all
<less-than>
          <property>engines/engine[1]/rpm</property>
                    <value>675</value>
     </less-than>


This needs adding to turbine0 and turbine1 for both inside and outside. (edit: changed from 535 to 675)

I have also found that the Q400 starts to flare at a too high speed (about 140-145 knots indicated airspeed). Also the nose steering is still like driving on ice (no grip).

Thanks

rjrm
Last edited by rjrm on Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
rjrm
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri May 03, 2019 4:24 pm

Re: Bombardier QSeries

Postby Octal450 » Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:19 pm

Wouldn't it better to check the drag curves first? This FDM is based off one of my old A320 FDMs with some tweaks so its' not too great.

Also, what do you mean flare at too high speed? You should be able to slow down much more. The flare is initiated by the pilot, not the plane.

RE nose steering, look in my a320-ground-reactions.xml as to how I fixed it.

Kind Regards,
Josh
Don't ever contact me about FlightGear again.
Octal450
 
Posts: 4391
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:51 pm

Re: Bombardier QSeries

Postby rjrm » Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:03 pm

I’ll have a look at the fdms but I don’t know what I’m doing.

Regarding the flare (correction I should have said the nose was pitching up), when I was doing an ILS approach and reducing speed, the nose was pitching up at about 145 knots. I’ll do a few more trial runs. It could just be me not flying correctly.

Thanks

rjrm
rjrm
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri May 03, 2019 4:24 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Aircraft

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: BLEXBot [Bot], bugman, Google [Bot] and 40 guests