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Please help to create a list of YASim aircrafts

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Re: Please help to create a list of YASim aircrafts

Postby jsb » Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:42 pm

* WOW *
!! Thanks for all your efforts !! :D

As you found an obiously not too hard way to locate the XML files, could add them to a .tgz and put them onto some filesharing too?
Having some 100 XMLs at hand I can head my room with yasim running but it will be worth it to check how my latest yasim patch affects things. I had to re-learn the hard way, that floating point calculations on computers are not exact - I somehow forgot ;)
(Unfortunately, a 757 variant was found not to solve anymore - more precisely the solver is oscillating around the solution. At the moment I believe this very FDM is "at limits" and might need a minor tuning to work again).
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Re: Please help to create a list of YASim aircrafts

Postby tikibar » Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:23 pm

Which 757 variant is giving you trouble?
Boeing 747-8 (rename folder to 747-8i)
Boeing 757-200/300 (rename folder to 757-200)
Boeing 767-300/ER (rename folder to 767-300)
McDonnell Douglas MD-11 (rename folder to MD-11)
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Re: Please help to create a list of YASim aircrafts

Postby jsb » Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:34 pm

fails to converge:
757-200-PW2040.xml
C-32A.xml
C-32B.xml

ok:
757-200-RB211.xml
757-300-RB211.xml

Reducing the nose ballast from 40000 to 38000 "fixes" the problem but I did not test the aircraft with that modification, it simply let the solver solve again ;)
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Re: Please help to create a list of YASim aircrafts

Postby wkitty42 » Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:51 pm

jsb wrote in Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:42 pm:As you found an obiously not too hard way to locate the XML files,

this was easy... normal find and grep stuff...

jsb wrote in Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:42 pm:could add them to a .tgz and put them onto some filesharing too?

this is harder and will require some scripting to parse the list and archive *.xml recursively and store the directories... you want all of the xml files for all 489 yasim craft??
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: Please help to create a list of YASim aircrafts

Postby AndersG » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:36 pm

wkitty42 wrote in Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:51 pm:this is harder and will require some scripting to parse the list and archive *.xml recursively and store the directories... you want all of the xml files for all 489 yasim craft??


I think he only wants the YASim configuration files - they can probably be tested for convergence outside FlightGear.
IIRC most (all?) YASim configurations are single file so it is probably not difficult to get them. It'd be a lot more difficult for
JSBSim aircraft as (I think) the configuration there is always stored in at least 3 files (for powered aircraft) and often more.
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Re: Please help to create a list of YASim aircrafts

Postby jsb » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:25 pm

Exactly, I need only the XMLs to use them with the yasim CLI tool. No folder structure needed. I believe tar has a --switch to read the file list and put only the XMLs in a tar, and -z for zip compress.
AFAIK yasim takes only single files which is good for my request to get the files ;)
Last edited by bugman on Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Please do not quote the entire previous post.
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Re: Please help to create a list of YASim aircrafts

Postby wkitty42 » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:31 pm

yeah, that's what i was looking at... i'm thinking that it is possible for the xml to load a file called, for example, mycraft.FDM.yasim where ".yasim" is the extension instead of xml... the problem is to find them... my initial gut reaction was along the lines of "we made the list so you can use it to download a hand full of the listed craft to test with"... but that seemed rather rude... i don't know if archiving all the xmls will provide jsb with what he's looking for... especially if someone did something like i give as an example... i do think having the craft for testing yasim as well as testing the changes in the sim is a GoodThing<tm>...

on the others, true... i know there's the aero file used for jsbsim and larcsim... i'm not sure about others... the UFO might have similar but i think it is all coded in the craft instead of using C/C++ space... i wanted to use it in another craft and found it easier to start with a copy of the UFO and then change out the craft ac file... but there's a lot in the UFO that isn't needed in other craft just to be able to use the UFO FDM... it might be even better to start with a copy of the bluebird and then switch out the craft model... i dunno... it is just a li'l side project i've been toying with... back to the aero file, i don't think/know if yasim uses one... i haven't seen such in the few craft i've looked at over time...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: Please help to create a list of YASim aircrafts

Postby wkitty42 » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:33 pm

jsb wrote in Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:25 pm:Exactly, I need only the XMLs to use them with the yasim CLI tool. No folder structure needed.

the question is which file? they may reside in another directory in the craft's tree and they may not have an xml extension...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: Please help to create a list of YASim aircrafts

Postby Hooray » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:57 pm

The previously outlined approach would also work for this, even though you don't need to use Nasal/fgfs for this, any XML processing tool that can process the -set.xml file and look up the <flight-mode>/<aero> tags to locate the basename of the yasim fdm file should work reasonably well - e.g. see:

https://sourceforge.net/p/flightgear/fg ... et.xml#l29
https://sourceforge.net/p/flightgear/fg ... /bo105.xml

In other words, something like xmlstar should work - but I suppose that we also have a number of Python based tools that already support PropertyList/XML files.
Please don't send support requests by PM, instead post your questions on the forum so that all users can contribute and benefit
Thanks & all the best,
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Re: Please help to create a list of YASim aircrafts

Postby jsb » Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:09 pm

(*?* one of my replys got lost)
Could you please just search for all XML having "<control-input" in it ( NO closeing '>') and zip them. That's not a 100% solution but very much good enought and hopefully not much work. :)
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Re: Please help to create a list of YASim aircrafts

Postby wkitty42 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:37 am

@jsb: i've sent you a PM with the links to the files requested...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: Please help to create a list of YASim aircrafts

Postby jsb » Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:27 pm

Thanks for the list. It took some time to make outputs compareable. I found some problems and I need as much help as I can get. If you are the developer/maintainer of one of the aircrafts shown in the 2nd list below, please contact me so we can find a solution. Also please inform affected aircraft developers you know.
First experiments show that in most cases the solver will work again if you slightly move the CG by changing the ballast that most aircrafts have in their nose area, e.g. one of th 757 variants solved again after reducing ballast from 40000 to 38000 - this does NOT change the empty weight, it is only a redistribution of empty mass. So if you could try this first and check if the airplain a) solves again and b) shows similar behaviour this would be great.

Thanks in advance

With version 2017.3 the following 9 yasim config fail (CRJ700 family removed as I am working on it to fix problems already):
Code: Select all
albatrosbII-yasim.xml.2017.3.txt:SOLUTION FAILURE: Solution failed to converge after 10000 iterations
ask13.xml.2017.3.txt:SOLUTION FAILURE: Solution failed to converge after 10000 iterations
ev55-amphibian-yasim.xml.2017.3.txt:SOLUTION FAILURE: Solution failed to converge after 10000 iterations
ev55-yasim.xml.2017.3.txt:SOLUTION FAILURE: Solution failed to converge after 10000 iterations
jaguar2-yasim.xml.2017.3.txt:SOLUTION FAILURE: Insufficient elevator to trim for approach
ju52floats-yasim.xml.2017.3.txt:SOLUTION FAILURE: Solution failed to converge after 10000 iterations
mosquito.xml.2017.3.txt:SOLUTION FAILURE: Insufficient elevator to trim for approach
mystereIV-yasim.xml.2017.3.txt:SOLUTION FAILURE: Insufficient elevator to trim for approach
new-gripen-yasim.xml.2017.3.txt:SOLUTION FAILURE: Lift ratio beyond reasonable bounds.


With flightgear version next 42 aircrafts show problems:
Code: Select all
14bis-yasim.xml.next.txt:SOLUTION FAILURE: Solution failed to converge!
757-200-PW2040.xml.next.txt:SOLUTION FAILURE: Solution failed to converge!
757-200-RB211.xml.next.txt:SOLUTION FAILURE: Solution failed to converge!
ask13.xml.next.txt:SOLUTION FAILURE: Solution failed to converge!
asw28.xml.next.txt:SOLUTION FAILURE: Solution failed to converge!
B-2-yasim.xml.next.txt:SOLUTION FAILURE: Solution failed to converge!
b36d-yasim.xml.next.txt:SOLUTION FAILURE: Solution failed to converge!
B-52F-yasim.xml.next.txt:SOLUTION FAILURE: Solution failed to converge!
buccaneer-yasim.xml.next.txt:SOLUTION FAILURE: Solution failed to converge!
C-32A.xml.next.txt:SOLUTION FAILURE: Solution failed to converge!
C-32B.xml.next.txt:SOLUTION FAILURE: Solution failed to converge!
coanda1910-yasim.xml.next.txt:SOLUTION FAILURE: Solution failed to converge!
ev55-amphibian-yasim.xml.next.txt:SOLUTION FAILURE: Insufficient elevator to trim for approach.
F-35B-yasim.xml.next.txt:SOLUTION FAILURE: Solution failed to converge!
farman-3-yasim.xml.next.txt:SOLUTION FAILURE: Solution failed to converge!
farman-III-yasim.xml.next.txt:SOLUTION FAILURE: Solution failed to converge!
farman-IV-yasim.xml.next.txt:SOLUTION FAILURE: Solution failed to converge!
fdm-y.xml.next.txt:SOLUTION FAILURE: Solution failed to converge!
jaguar2-yasim.xml.next.txt:SOLUTION FAILURE: Insufficient elevator to trim for approach.
leduc022-yasim.xml.next.txt:SOLUTION FAILURE: Solution failed to converge!
m2000-5-yasim.xml.next.txt:SOLUTION FAILURE: Solution failed to converge!
me262-yasim.xml.next.txt:SOLUTION FAILURE: Solution failed to converge!
mosquito.xml.next.txt:SOLUTION FAILURE: Insufficient elevator to trim for approach.
mystereIV-yasim.xml.next.txt:SOLUTION FAILURE: Insufficient elevator to trim for approach.
new-gripen-yasim.xml.next.txt:SOLUTION FAILURE: Lift ratio beyond reasonable bounds.
pa22-160-yasim.xml.next.txt:SOLUTION FAILURE: Solution failed to converge!
seahawk-3d-2t-yasim.xml.next.txt:SOLUTION FAILURE: Solution failed to converge!
seahawk-3d-yasim.xml.next.txt:SOLUTION FAILURE: Solution failed to converge!
T-50-yasim.xml.next.txt:SOLUTION FAILURE: Solution failed to converge!
YF-23-yasim.xml.next.txt:SOLUTION FAILURE: Solution failed to converge!
Last edited by jsb on Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Please help to create a list of YASim aircrafts

Postby vslash » Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:59 pm

the solver will work again if you slightly move the CG


I'm not sure to understand what you mean, but changing the CG means changing the whole behavior of the aircraft. I spend hundred hours myself to put the CG where it must be - and where it is currently - and all Yasim parameters have been set according to this CG. The CG is the cornerstone and the 1st step for everything else, so changing the way Yasim computes the CG is like changing ... everything. No other way from your side ? BR, Val.
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Re: Please help to create a list of YASim aircrafts

Postby D-ECHO » Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:25 am

This list above shows about 6 aircraft I am maintaining. Is there a way to tell yasim to continue using the old calculation?
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Re: Please help to create a list of YASim aircrafts

Postby jsb » Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:11 pm

Not really, because the calculation is unchanged in terms of code logic, but the order of the calculation steps has changed. The problem is, that floating point calculations are not exact so normal math rules are not true anymore, e.g. (a+b)*c is not exactly a*c+b*c.

Could you name one of the aircrafts so I can have a look?
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