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What is the procedure for commit our work on FGAddon ?

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What is the procedure for commit our work on FGAddon ?

Postby abassign » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:43 pm

Image

After the problems of recognizing the authenticity of our work of the G91-R1B, it seems to me that at this point someone clearly explains the criteria necessary to be able to insert our work on FGAddon.
This discussion between Erik and Thorsten terrifies me.
The example used by Thorsten makes it clear (to those who read it, and others have interpreted it as I have interpreted it), that FGAddon is owned by Thorsten and that therefore all FGFS is owned by him. This fact means that the FGFS project does not respect the most basic GNU canons. Therefore it seems necessary to me that there are some clarifications and clear definitions of guidelines to be adopted to insert a plane in FGAddon.
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Re: How to make an Aircraft....

Postby Hooray » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:52 pm

Sorry, but this is really absurd - please do a reality check first. This kind of behavior is it that started to the whole thing. And the topic was locked for a reason.
I suggest not to focus too much on Thorsten at all - he is not even listed as a project manager (a person who would conceptually "own" a repository, or even the whole sourceforge project).

https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.it ... gViolation

The point being, you should ignore what Thorsten said - and just put yourself into his shoes (you being a fgdata/fgaddon committer), and then imagine I am approaching YOU to get something committed on behalf of me, and then, someone (say bugman) claims that my contribution would be theft - I'd expect you to also tread very carefully then, and I'd also think that you'd expect any other party to tread very carefully if your intellectual property is about to be added to some public repository seemingly without your exlicit consent, and in violation with your rights.

Thus, we would have the same problem if Thorsten (or Erik) were not involved in the project. However, the mere fact that we're not having to deal with this kind of problem each and every day is primarily because of the very fact that people like Thorsten are involved, because they're trying their best to do some due diligence first: https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Due_diligence
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Re: What is the procedure for commit our work on FGAddon ?

Postby AndersG » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:02 pm

abassign wrote in Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:43 pm:This discussion between Erik and Thorsten terrifies me.
The example used by Thorsten makes it clear (to those who read it, and others have interpreted it as I have interpreted it), that FGAddon is owned by Thorsten and that therefore all FGFS is owned by him. This fact means that the FGFS project does not respect the most basic GNU canons. Therefore it seems necessary to me that there are some clarifications and clear definitions of guidelines to be adopted to insert a plane in FGAddon.


As I read it that is NOT what Thorsten said. He said that /he/ could decline to commit your aircraft to FGAddon for you - and given that he is a volunteer I see nothing wrong with that. There are other committers that might be willing to do that service for you (if they deem that everything is in order etc.).
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Re: How to make an Aircraft....

Postby Hooray » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:07 pm

Basically, we cannot make other contributors (=volunteers) to do something for us - the only way is to ask nicely and find out a way to make it happen.
There are usually several people who can handle these things - but often, it does require a conscious effort to get something reviewed and comitted, which is a long-standing issue that many of the committers (=reviewers) are aware of.

As a matter of fact, you, abassign, could be given fgdata/fgaddon commit access within a few seconds - but that does not automatically mean that other contributors can expect you to do any work for them, right ? and even if you are willing to do so, you'd have to feel comfortable doing that, right ?

And that sums up Thorsten's (and Erik's) points rather well - just because you are a committer who is volunteering to review/commit something, does not imply any "right" to have your work reviewed or committed

Besides, this is really not uncommon at all - sometimes, this happens because people are overstretched in terms of their responsibilities/work - but more and more often, it's also a matter of missing expertise, like Stuart and James repeatedly mentioned.

If in doubt, look at the osgEarth work that was put up for review years ago, and still is a separate set of patches.
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Re: What is the procedure for commit our work on FGAddon ?

Postby abassign » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:32 pm

AndersG wrote in Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:02 pm:As I read it that is NOT what Thorsten said. He said that /he/ could decline to commit your aircraft to FGAddon for you - and given that he is a volunteer I see nothing wrong with that. There are other committers that might be willing to do that service for you (if they deem that everything is in order etc.).


Thank you and Hooray for your answer, but my question is more related to the "content" that the "container" for the container (or programs) there is another space that I would like to attend, maybe I have the skills, but not the time. As for making a plane (content) have a greater chance of action and with my partners we decided to do it. Of course we can publish on Github, but our desire, like other builders, is to make it fly directly FGFS, also to give more visibility to the project and hope to get support from others.

From what happened to the G91R1B it seems to me only one guy has taken this task, in a very controversial way.
Then, once the issue was resolved, with everyone present in the discussion applauding the new entry of the G91R1B in FGAddon ... but the discussion (perhaps rightly, but I do not know) was blocked, and at this point I do not know what happens anymore and what is the procedure to be performed.
For this I ask in this post: "what is the procedure?", Where it is written, who manages it ... who performs the verification task ? The problem is that right now a fact is certain, we have a good plane, we fly it in Italy on FaceBook FGFS Italy, but can not fly in FGAddon because we do not know how to do it.

https://youtu.be/5gH9rlHop1g
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Re: How to make an Aircraft....

Postby Hooray » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:37 pm

abassign wrote in Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:32 pm:Then, once the issue was resolved, with everyone present in the discussion applauding the new entry of the G91R1B in FGAddon ... but the discussion (perhaps rightly, but I do not know) was blocked, and at this point I do not know what happens anymore and what is the procedure to be performed.
For this I ask in this post: "what is the procedure?", Where it is written, who manages it ... who performs the verification task ?


http://wiki.flightgear.org/FGAddon#Commit_access

However, I assume, hat in the light of your responses due to Thorsten's justified concerns regarding the allegations he received, this may take a bit longer ... because your subsequent responses on this forum basically indicate that there's at least a serious misconception involving the GPL and how the FGAddon repository has to be managed, i.e. for your contributions, and those created by others (as in, the whole project), to be "safe". But also specifically taking into account, that other contributors are not automatically entitled to have their work reviewed by fgdata/fgaddon committers, which would also "protect" your interests, should you ever end up with commit access.

Again, that's just my impression and interpretation of the events surrounding the misconception in the other thread, and how those may relate to the aforementioned guidelines.
Thus, to be on the safe side, my suggestion would indeed be to use the extra500 approach in the meantime.

See also:
Subject: Contributing to FGAddon
stuart wrote: If you post useful patches to the -devel mailing list ans elgaton suggests, and show good judgement, you can get write access without ever being on the forum. Indeed a lot of the people with write access are not on the forum at all.

-Stuart
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Re: What is the procedure for commit our work on FGAddon ?

Postby Richard » Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:06 pm

abassign wrote in Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:43 pm:someone clearly explains the criteria necessary to be able to insert our work on FGAddon.


All of the content in the model needs to be GPL licenced. Any original content needs the consent of the authors (ideally by posting into the thread, or by email). The model must not use any content (images, sounds, 3d, code) that is not GPL licenced.

If these criteria are met then there are a number of volunteers (myself included) who will review content prior to committing to FGaddon. If you feel ready you can ask for commit access to FGAddon yourself; see http://wiki.flightgear.org/FGAddon#Commit_access
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Re: What is the procedure for commit our work on FGAddon ?

Postby Thorsten » Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:22 am

From what happened to the G91R1B it seems to me only one guy has taken this task, in a very controversial way.
Then, once the issue was resolved, with everyone present in the discussion applauding the new entry of the G91R1B in FGAddon ... but the discussion (perhaps rightly, but I do not know) was blocked, and at this point I do not know what happens anymore and what is the procedure to be performed.


The situation right now is that one guy (myself) volunteered to do the task (because he was impressed by the amount and detail of work and felt this should not be left hanging around for too long), that this volunteer (me) however had to resolve some copyright concerns (which, by the way, pretty much every other FGAddon committer would have had to deal with the same way), you opposed him on the grounds that you think he's not impartial, throwing some other accusations to sabotage your work in for good measure, he subsequently retracted the offer to volunteer as committer for you (the start of the review didn't bode well for the rest), the copyright issue got resolved in the mean time and now you have to find some other volunteer to do the review.
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Re: What is the procedure for commit our work on FGAddon ?

Postby abassign » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:43 am

The insertion procedure in FGAddon arises from the involvement of someone "trusted" who has access to FGAddon.
I think this is a good procedure, as it prevents the generation of spam, prevents FGAddon is full of poorly built aircraft or parts that do not comply with the rules of the GNU license.
Something like that is usual in other very structured projects, now everything is clearer to me.
Thank you for your intervention, it seems to me that it describes with simplicity and clarity the procedure.
Last edited by bugman on Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Please do not quote the entire previous post.
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Re: What is the procedure for commit our work on FGAddon ?

Postby Thorsten » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:19 am

But obviously the case is really incredible, only you received the email of accusation, without evidence attached, to you alone, the person who wanted to help us to insert our plane in FGAddon.


We actually don't know that - the mail was sent via the forum mail function (so I can't see other recipients from the header) and it's not clear to me whether someone else received it as well - the wording at least indicates that it was not directed to any one particular person, so my belief was that a handful of people might have received it.
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Re: What is the procedure for commit our work on FGAddon ?

Postby abassign » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:00 pm

For some time we had prepared a folder on Github, today I have updated with the name that I hope is definitive: G91-R1B_HD I do not want to insert the name FIAT as it is a registered trademark and then is already used for a similar model of aircraft .

I noticed the problem of audio, I inserted the audio of the MIG15 present in FGAddon because the noise of the engine is not very different from that of the G91 (same engine rpm, even if the engine differs as a burner technology). However, to start it may be enough, but there are problems:

    Where do I write that the audio was derived from another project? I was thinking of inserting it into the MIG15 audio XML that I copied in the G91.
    We wanted to release the aircraft under the GNU 3 license (this choice is correct) while I noticed that for the audio the license is defined as follows:
    "Sounds or liveries of MiG-15bis is distributable as part of the product under terms of the GPL license." Honestly, it seems very generic. What do you advise me to do?
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Re: What is the procedure for commit our work on FGAddon ?

Postby erik » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:11 am

To be sure you could add the exceptions in the COPYING or COPYRIGHT file, either file by file or for every directory which is an exception, like:

The following files are licensed under their own license;
sounds/mig15-engine.wav: GPL2 or later


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Re: What is the procedure for commit our work on FGAddon ?

Postby bugman » Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:37 am

Note, I have split off the last posts in this thread to:


Regards,
Edward
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Re: What is the procedure for commit our work on FGAddon ?

Postby Ittleave » Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:07 pm

erik wrote in Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:11 am:To be sure you could add the exceptions in the COPYING or COPYRIGHT file, either file by file or for every directory which is an exception, like:

The following files are licensed under their own license;
sounds/mig15-engine.wav: GPL2 or later


Erik

thank you very much Erik for your help, i really appreciate it a lot as it truly helps me. by the way, i can see that you know these things really well, may i ask you questions in case i would have any? thanks again!
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