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[Poll] IDG-A32X Windows: Cut out, or painted on?

Questions and discussion about creating aircraft. Flight dynamics, 3d models, cockpits, systems, animation, textures.

Paint on, or cut out passenger windows?

Poll ended at Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:50 pm

Paint on (Livery)
13
37%
Cut out (3D)
22
63%
 
Total votes : 35

Re: [Poll] IDG-A32X Windows: Cut out, or painted on?

Postby wlbragg » Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:33 am

we WILL NOT be modelling a full interior, or providing interior views, this is flight simulator, not passenger simulator.

That would have been my question before answering the poll. If this is the case then why bother to cut out the windows and add any extra verts. I'd texture it in that case.
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Re: [Poll] IDG-A32X Windows: Cut out, or painted on?

Postby Ger272 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:43 am

As texture designer I strongly recommend to chose for closing the windows. It makes the aircraft look more real and gives us the chance to create nice HD Liveries with detailed windows!
With cut out windows the liverie, the texture and the model will always suffer a lot!
If you guys wish I can create an example for a closed window texture - this way you can see how real it could look like ;)
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--- DUE TO THE A320 RE-DESIGN ALL MY A320 TEXTURE AND LIVERY DEVELOPMENTS ARE ON A HOLD ---

For "How to download" check topic: Ger272 HQ Liveries.
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Re: [Poll] IDG-A32X Windows: Cut out, or painted on?

Postby CaptB » Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:34 am

LesterBoffo wrote in Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:35 am:The problem with Boolean cuts is that sometimes the Boolean algorithm isn't as polygon efficient as just manually planning the fuse cuts as you are extruding and mirroring each half of the fuselage. You still have to make a 'step' and widen the interior apertures individually and blend them into the wall surface if you're going to model passenger seating views. By this time you're already committed from the inception to making a detailed passenger compartment and might as well spend some time and polygons to get it looking good.


There is no need to use boolean. If it is used for windows it's either because the 3D modeling software does not support any other techniques , or the person modeling has a bit more to learn about modeling. Please read my post in the dev thread about how shading works. It is a shading issue that will persist to a varying degree even if the model of the window is correct.
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Re: [Poll] IDG-A32X Windows: Cut out, or painted on?

Postby iamzac » Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:07 am

it0uchpods wrote in Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:02 pm:it will look weird being to see through the windows thru to the other side of the plane, with only some small seats, and floors barely visible.

In the current state windows don't look properly adjusted yet.
Here is an example of how only one small tweak (changing outside window transparency) changes things: https://imgur.com/a/FTbiK
And if you play with surface effects on the glass and the interior (also interior lighting) for a bit you can make further improvements.

@Ger272: A very good hd livery with painted windows and lightmaps for windows at night would look better that the current state, but I think that the current state can be improved to look even better.

Well, in the end developers will decide, the plane will be great whatever the decision, even though I hope you keep the windows :)
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Re: [Poll] IDG-A32X Windows: Cut out, or painted on?

Postby wkitty42 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:01 pm

LesterBoffo wrote in Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:35 am:By this time you're already committed from the inception to making a detailed passenger compartment and might as well spend some time and polygons to get it looking good.

even if the passenger compartment is just an empty tube... someone else can add the passenger interior if needed/desired... or maybe tanks for firefighting chemicals... or whatever... i mean, hey, if a 747 can fight the fires in california, surely an airbus can, too :mrgreen:
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Re: [Poll] IDG-A32X Windows: Cut out, or painted on?

Postby omega13a » Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:03 am

I prefer them cut out so I can have outlines of in the guidelines/mesh in the paintkit. Windows are one of the things I use to determine what goes where. Having the windows painted on, even if they are on a separate layer, just makes things more complicated for livery designers (not to mention adds too much clutter when I just want to see the guidelines/mesh).
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Re: [Poll] IDG-A32X Windows: Cut out, or painted on?

Postby Ger272 » Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:35 pm

@omega:
What tool are you using to create liveries?
If you use Adobe Illustrator you shouldn‘t have and problems with painted windows!
In fact: Cut Outs are even harder to design as you won‘t have any orientation where the windows exactly are. I already tried to create window frames for the old model. In result: I had to scale and place each window seperatly. You can check the final result by following the links below.

I would suggest that the windows are painted on a seperate layer which is located above the liverie layer. That way no liverie-designer should have any problems with the windows. And: windows and window-frames could be much more detailed!
Download-Links to all available Ger272 liveries:

A320/A319 - A350XWB - A<380 - A310MRTT - C-160 Transall

--- DUE TO THE A320 RE-DESIGN ALL MY A320 TEXTURE AND LIVERY DEVELOPMENTS ARE ON A HOLD ---

For "How to download" check topic: Ger272 HQ Liveries.
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Re: [Poll] IDG-A32X Windows: Cut out, or painted on?

Postby Octal450 » Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:16 pm

This poll shows most people want cut outs, I'll keep that in mind. We will make our decision shortly.

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Re: [Poll] IDG-A32X Windows: Cut out, or painted on?

Postby omega13a » Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:32 pm

Another thing to keep in mind. Computers are getting more and more powerful all the time and people may use eventually use this for things you haven't anticipated. I'm not saying YOU SHOULD MAKE A FULL INTERIOR FOR THE PLANE. i'M JUST SAYING NOT TO MAKE IT IMPOSSIBLE OR INSANELY DIFFICULT FOR ONE TO BE MADE IN THE FUTURE.
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Re: [Poll] IDG-A32X Windows: Cut out, or painted on?

Postby Octal450 » Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:38 pm

I see no reason for it, plus, the 330 doesn't have it, so I like keeping the features between the buses equal.

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Re: [Poll] IDG-A32X Windows: Cut out, or painted on?

Postby Ger272 » Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:00 am

Here is an example how detailed painted windows could look like. We could even go for more details ;)

Image

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Download-Links to all available Ger272 liveries:

A320/A319 - A350XWB - A<380 - A310MRTT - C-160 Transall

--- DUE TO THE A320 RE-DESIGN ALL MY A320 TEXTURE AND LIVERY DEVELOPMENTS ARE ON A HOLD ---

For "How to download" check topic: Ger272 HQ Liveries.
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Re: [Poll] IDG-A32X Windows: Cut out, or painted on?

Postby D-ECHO » Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:09 am

Nice!
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Re: [Poll] IDG-A32X Windows: Cut out, or painted on?

Postby CaptB » Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:16 am

Ger272 wrote in Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:00 am:Here is an example how detailed painted windows could look like. We could even go for more details ;)


Not that I am advocating for cutouts, but I can still make it so , that you will have a simliar possibility with them, furthermore, the painted cabin/people/shades could be dynamic.
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Re: [Poll] IDG-A32X Windows: Cut out, or painted on?

Postby merspieler » Sun Dec 24, 2017 1:01 pm

Ger272 wrote in Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:00 am:Here is an example how detailed painted windows could look like. We could even go for more details ;)


Looks nice but what happens when you change the viewing angle it just uggly IMO.

I don't know if it's possible in fg but with some game engines you can add a carmera which captures a scene which can then be applied as texture like a normal static one but the parameters can be adjusted so the "texture" can change on the fly (the downside of this technique is a performance loss cause the system have to render first the texture scene and then again the normal view).
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Re: [Poll] IDG-A32X Windows: Cut out, or painted on?

Postby LesterBoffo » Sun Dec 24, 2017 2:12 pm

There is a third way: You could create the transparent objects for the outer glass that float a couple mm off the surface of the fuselage side and use their order in the object list to selectively 'cut' visibility holes into the fuselage mesh. It would require a series of apertures matching the windows just inside the fuselage body and a low poly interior with rows of low poly seats ordered in the object hierarchy so they can be seen through the windows.
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